WEBVTT

NOTE duration:"00:59:21.1770000"

NOTE language:en-us

00:00:17.100 --> 00:00:20.910
[KCTS Seattle intro/outro sound]

NOTE Confidence: 0.566504895687103

dd01d800-c7db-44b4-8bbb-1f6eb3e0eff3
00:00:20.910 --> 00:00:23.000
(voiceover #1)
KCTS Seattle.

NOTE Confidence: 0.895256102085114

c477363c-c1b5-411a-beaa-ee5b0df79f39
00:00:26.400 --> 00:00:28.798
(voiceover #2)
This program is produced 
in cooperation with the 

NOTE Confidence: 0.895256102085114

77f0b322-c69b-4a96-8739-adc69ed7ebe6
00:00:28.798 --> 00:00:32.956
Institute of Governmental Research of 
the Graduate School of Public Affairs,

NOTE Confidence: 0.895256102085114

7a0e1824-db04-4949-946e-ee988ca4beae
00:00:32.956 --> 00:00:34.964
and the Washington Sea Grant program 

NOTE Confidence: 0.895256102085114

60cf4286-ce64-4ecc-87c8-fca1c716a1c2
00:00:34.964 --> 00:00:37.300
at the University of Washington.

NOTE Confidence: 0.847639739513397

e025c356-7e53-4d4e-8e84-8d4d8d52cf8d
00:00:38.580 --> 00:00:41.871
(speaker #1)
As far as Judge Boldt's concerned, 
I think he should, when he was born

NOTE Confidence: 0.847639739513397

8a24274a-cc91-483c-877a-9c7ac809f0b2
00:00:41.871 --> 00:00:44.663
the stork should've stayed at 
his house and he should've flew away.

NOTE Confidence: 0.847639739513397

3082d2cb-219c-4c73-b6f1-092f93499fad
00:00:44.663 --> 00:00:47.965
(speaker #2)
The highest court in the land 
says it's right, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.847639739513397

270caf62-5356-474b-b840-6e6597bd0e4c
00:00:47.965 --> 00:00:49.750
and that's good enough for me. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.847639739513397

0fab34c4-cd96-4d1d-a0df-5bc368e9c20a
00:00:49.750 --> 00:00:53.712
(speaker #3)
I never believed that we could have
regulations as bad as they are today.

NOTE Confidence: 0.860140860080719

ed1fa5da-d714-4351-a8f9-a1a07c9959fb
00:00:54.912 --> 00:00:56.960
Never would have believed it. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.860140860080719

0387ea5e-642a-4486-adc0-0e2871969dce
00:00:56.960 --> 00:01:00.972
(Cliff Keeline)
It's enabled me to go out
and actually make some money at it. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.860140860080719

d88b0e6a-13ca-4733-919f-f23315037f19
00:01:00.972 --> 00:01:04.945
Make a living at it instead of just, 
you know, fairweather wages. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.860140860080719

11e7b78c-e9ba-470e-80c3-b7ad409dab7d
00:01:04.945 --> 00:01:08.300
(speaker #5)
Oh so when Judge Boldt
handed his decision down or whatever, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.860140860080719

1172d72b-7a80-44b9-b113-a405791f5d0a
00:01:08.300 --> 00:01:10.850
which term you wanna put it is,
actually it made me 

00:01:10.850 --> 00:01:12.500
as a commercial fisherman, 
a criminal.

NOTE Confidence: 0.860140860080719

3fb17377-bd08-4d1e-9a80-73dc6c776f0d
00:01:13.448 --> 00:01:16.951
(speaker #6)
You cannot make a living, no way.
You can't even catch enough fish

NOTE Confidence: 0.860140860080719

5bb902c6-1281-4de0-808c-11beedd3f23e
00:01:16.951 --> 00:01:20.937
to pay your insurance on the boat 
and your gear,

NOTE Confidence: 0.860140860080719

17ff919b-ee85-4f6a-819a-30b2552f93b1
00:01:20.937 --> 00:01:22.953
'cause you don't get enough time 
to fish. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.875935256481171

65584d51-b999-4be8-adeb-98cd7aca80b3
00:01:23.250 --> 00:01:28.480
(speaker #7)
We didn't believe that the, 
that any judge or any thinking per-

NOTE Confidence: 0.875935256481171

8b2f6f62-daa7-4583-9b50-093f3cd0c410
00:01:28.480 --> 00:01:32.582
no we didn't believe our government, 
would let something like this happen

NOTE Confidence: 0.875935256481171

842d87e9-8091-47b7-9c25-85045d3126d8
00:01:32.582 --> 00:01:34.554
to just normal working people.

NOTE Confidence: 0.848417580127716

1660333a-5845-4ae4-85e7-00fa5ccf9dc0
00:01:35.990 --> 00:01:39.979
(speaker #8)
Our constitutional rights gives
all the people the rights, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.848417580127716

d61c55a4-e9bb-4959-bfb1-96e6426f6102
00:01:39.979 --> 00:01:43.250
not a preferred group of people,
special rights. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.848417580127716

cbba5a12-ec83-4fb8-b3e3-a34c90f580c5
00:01:43.970 --> 00:01:48.962
(narrator)
In 1974, Judge George Boldt ruled 
certain Northwest Indians 

NOTE Confidence: 0.848417580127716

3fbd5e37-d9e4-4296-aa61-b0d95ee90244
00:01:48.962 --> 00:01:50.100
were entitled to the chance 

00:01:50.100 --> 00:01:53.600
to catch half the harvestable 
salmon and steelhead.

NOTE Confidence: 0.848417580127716

d91ae027-07fa-44f5-ab64-f7bb83031279
00:01:53.600 --> 00:01:56.952
The case, the United States vs.
the State of Washington,

NOTE Confidence: 0.848417580127716

c0d00de3-83d2-431a-a7fd-9fe7e4252508
00:01:56.952 --> 00:01:59.100
is generally known as 
the Boldt decision. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.848417580127716

f04fa475-4b43-451f-ae6f-318ba224ac97
00:02:00.050 --> 00:02:03.320
For the Indian, it was a 
clearing of the waters. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.848417580127716

94064af8-5cc6-4107-accd-9c7e655697f2
00:02:03.320 --> 00:02:05.000
For the commercial 
and sports fishermen, 

00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:07.600
it was a blast that 
shook their foundations

NOTE Confidence: 0.859138607978821

7024dcc9-d6ed-45da-a1dd-71b2b961ace3
00:02:07.600 --> 00:02:09.050
and sent them into the streets.

NOTE Confidence: 0.859138607978821

2554c448-0322-4188-8639-19666455bf13
00:02:09.500 --> 00:02:11.900
To University law professor
Ralph Johnson, 

00:02:11.900 --> 00:02:13.880
it was a landmark decision. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.859138607978821

1b74ba32-c57a-44db-9d54-f260f83fc4e1
00:02:13.880 --> 00:02:16.750
(Ralph Johnson)
Briefly, the Boldt decision 
is a recognition that 

NOTE Confidence: 0.859138607978821

54d25d9d-5cd5-4108-8148-dfe84152994a
00:02:16.750 --> 00:02:20.470
past state regulation of 
Indian fishing rights was not legal.

NOTE Confidence: 0.859138607978821

e1ff07ce-6f1e-4f7a-8ee2-d869bc01e285
00:02:20.470 --> 00:02:22.600
It was in violation 
of their treaty rights. 

00:02:22.600 --> 00:02:24.950
Secondly, that they do have 
special treaty rights

NOTE Confidence: 0.859138607978821

4bee66cc-c9b5-4822-bce3-5d62c8cce916
00:02:24.950 --> 00:02:26.950
that are different than
other people in this country.

NOTE Confidence: 0.859138607978821

d502d41b-315d-4ebd-8237-141b481fef26
00:02:26.950 --> 00:02:29.980
They have treaty rights. 
And lastly, the most important thing,

NOTE Confidence: 0.859138607978821

a30c9bd0-e4b8-4789-859a-4d2ecfc9ce31
00:02:29.980 --> 00:02:33.400
and the first time it was ever
decided was that the Indians aren't-

NOTE Confidence: 0.859138607978821

37fcba20-7c7c-42b8-9c2f-6592ffecf213
00:02:33.400 --> 00:02:36.978
have a chance to catch up to 50% 
of the harvestable run of the salmon.

NOTE Confidence: 0.859138607978821

9b94d06a-8cbe-4ca9-aa34-4ee5ea66429a
00:02:36.978 --> 00:02:39.994
Now that's the first time a figure 
has ever been given to that.

NOTE Confidence: 0.863647699356079

82c25a54-6f1b-4c54-94dc-dd406d136b5a
00:02:39.994 --> 00:02:43.760
Before, uh, courts have said 
they are entitled to a fair share,

NOTE Confidence: 0.863647699356079

c5fccd5d-77be-4d7c-ab8c-4332565640e1
00:02:43.760 --> 00:02:46.953
an equitable share, or something, 
but it left sufficient ambiguity

NOTE Confidence: 0.863647699356079

2f740ea6-93d8-48c6-88b8-62d75e03fe62
00:02:46.953 --> 00:02:49.090
that nobody could really be certain
what they had.

NOTE Confidence: 0.863647699356079

c650535a-775f-4f30-b2a5-8532ad4274cf
00:02:49.090 --> 00:02:51.650
Now they have a chance 
to catch up to 50%, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.863647699356079

6aa9307a-92ff-46e1-9bb1-b3d1cb908ab8
00:02:51.650 --> 00:02:53.530
and that's a major, 
a major uh, decision. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.863647699356079

2048ec50-cd0b-423e-99ab-e42f6d2e6642
00:02:54.850 --> 00:02:58.535
(narrator)
Demonstrations against the decision 
were immediate and dramatic.

NOTE Confidence: 0.853917717933655

d3b760bb-f841-4236-b40f-9d0d54f72516
00:03:01.970 --> 00:03:04.284
The non white fisherman 
found it hard to believe

NOTE Confidence: 0.853917717933655

f4a62a1a-9288-4336-a7a8-3ccf9f757cde
00:03:04.284 --> 00:03:07.954
that the United States government, 
over 100 years ago, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.853917717933655

6449f08c-6455-4425-ba84-b48c79e3574c
00:03:07.954 --> 00:03:10.767
had in certain Northwest treaty areas, 

00:03:10.767 --> 00:03:13.500
placed a mortgage 
on the fishing resource.

NOTE Confidence: 0.838323652744293

11172028-fb18-4348-af0b-15455399060d
00:03:14.490 --> 00:03:15.980
(Ralph Johnson)
Well the origin of the controversy

NOTE Confidence: 0.838323652744293

ec6201ad-c8d7-4cbc-b059-7a4cdf247e68
00:03:15.980 --> 00:03:19.200
of course dates way back 
to the treaties of 1855, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.838323652744293

686be208-b5fc-4ba8-ab89-ad9286b95a26
00:03:19.200 --> 00:03:21.978
and at that time the Indians 
caught almost all the fish. 

00:03:21.978 --> 00:03:24.800
The white man really wasn't 
very interested in catching salmon.

NOTE Confidence: 0.838323652744293

1fc6447e-29e4-4f70-b76e-aa1031736c3a
00:03:24.800 --> 00:03:26.916
Furthermore, the Indians 
didn't catch them by, uh,

NOTE Confidence: 0.838323652744293

f1fc2260-352d-435b-87b0-e80ae3e75dbb
00:03:26.916 --> 00:03:29.650
the simple inefficient means
that people sometimes think, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.838323652744293

2d1f925d-e7d9-442e-a4a3-a03db4f51bda
00:03:29.650 --> 00:03:32.838
they caught them by traps and weirs,
which are some of the most efficient

NOTE Confidence: 0.838323652744293

afc307bc-e712-4795-a750-9a151927b0d2
00:03:32.838 --> 00:03:35.450
fish gathering, salmon catching 
things there are. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.838323652744293

fa1d52f5-1607-46a4-8670-f55e5dbf9b34
00:03:35.450 --> 00:03:37.996
In the meantime though, why then 
in the intervening years 

NOTE Confidence: 0.838323652744293

3167181b-3128-41e2-a0c8-36bd2573640f
00:03:37.996 --> 00:03:41.150
between 1855 and modern times,
the white man has gone ahead 

NOTE Confidence: 0.838323652744293

a043be80-2ebc-4ff4-a12d-a766b250fe0d
00:03:41.150 --> 00:03:43.682
and put in more and more boats, 
more and more gear,  

NOTE Confidence: 0.816187500953674

6e2ba7bd-5d86-4b75-8b4f-30a2ce0135da
00:03:43.682 --> 00:03:46.900
out further and further to sea, 
so that by the time the fish 

NOTE Confidence: 0.816187500953674

6d7ab0ac-9be6-48c1-8844-ba147e921bb8
00:03:46.900 --> 00:03:51.020
get through this melange of nets, 
why then there aren't any fish left

NOTE Confidence: 0.816187500953674

b55a6ea0-3159-48dc-bd02-45924b469a14
00:03:51.020 --> 00:03:53.510
except those that should be
permitted to spawn. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.816187500953674

7a36b591-918a-4cdd-9113-0759eb15561f
00:03:53.510 --> 00:03:55.994
And of course at that point, 
why then the Indians are accused

NOTE Confidence: 0.816187500953674

a3d9098c-5644-40bd-85d8-194db7fe4463
00:03:55.994 --> 00:03:59.500
of being bad conservationists, 
because here they are catching fish 

NOTE Confidence: 0.816187500953674

bb67ce9a-c9f6-4dc8-b084-95bd9cf58ee4
00:03:59.500 --> 00:04:02.000
that should be left to spawn.
And the Indian says well what happened? 

NOTE Confidence: 0.816187500953674

57533896-ec5d-4806-939e-5f84d7aa797a
00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:03.618
I mean what happened 
to my treaty rights? 

00:04:03.618 --> 00:04:04.800
There are no fish left.

NOTE Confidence: 0.88586151599884

221d0462-36fa-44ce-a6cd-9be00b910409
00:04:05.450 --> 00:04:08.999
(narrator)
In 1855, when the Indians 
gave up their land, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.88586151599884

7367d5eb-6382-4160-9ba0-1898d27e0d14
00:04:08.999 --> 00:04:12.850
they retained their right to fish 
in common with other citizens, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.88586151599884

9e02a525-35e4-4ef7-9442-3379879db4a2
00:04:12.850 --> 00:04:15.134
at their usual and accustomed places.

NOTE Confidence: 0.846223294734955

3464ede8-09c9-48c6-ab59-a2870b17f716
00:04:15.720 --> 00:04:19.492
This their descendants continued 
to do, even in violation of state law.

NOTE Confidence: 0.846223294734955

f970f7fb-00df-45a1-a70d-afc5cff2d63d
00:04:19.492 --> 00:04:22.976
Controversy, sometimes violence, 
resulted. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.846223294734955

fce610af-cfa6-4e57-a00e-717de8622bf7
00:04:22.976 --> 00:04:24.996
The United States government 
persuaded the Indians 

NOTE Confidence: 0.846223294734955

78640981-7867-4b1b-b54b-171d37b9d2fa
00:04:24.996 --> 00:04:27.300
to take their case to federal court. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.846223294734955

d0c5ef1f-ea7f-4679-97ad-bfca530d1cc6
00:04:27.300 --> 00:04:32.230
Interpreting "in common" to mean 
the opportunity to catch up to 50%,

NOTE Confidence: 0.846223294734955

0535d130-a4fa-4148-9648-ce7d7369281f
00:04:32.230 --> 00:04:34.980
is unbelievable to 
purse seine captain, Wally Green. 

00:04:34.980 --> 00:04:37.700
(Wally Green)
One people- one thing
that people really have to realize

NOTE Confidence: 0.846223294734955

2ced6c10-6f0c-428c-a1ce-c572df88f6ae
00:04:37.700 --> 00:04:40.318
is that the Indians have
always had the opportunity to fish.

NOTE Confidence: 0.846223294734955

78e048a4-8ec9-42bd-83a3-b5f553e62276
00:04:40.318 --> 00:04:44.980
Nobody has uh, said they couldn't fish. 
And when I first started fishing

NOTE Confidence: 0.846223294734955

824c9ce8-2a81-43ae-86ff-04ff89ddc9cb
00:04:44.980 --> 00:04:46.800
I remember just in the 
local Lummi tribe

NOTE Confidence: 0.846223294734955

9f077719-3451-490e-813c-b67eea112393
00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:48.930
there were about 19 or 20 seiners.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816244959831238

371edcab-2ddd-4e5f-9420-befa71fef0be
00:04:48.930 --> 00:04:50.570
And before previous 
this Boldt decision,

NOTE Confidence: 0.816244959831238

75284d87-bf6f-4338-adc9-4aaf25477f8c
00:04:50.570 --> 00:04:53.980
there was only one left,
but it's just competition. 

00:04:53.980 --> 00:04:56.730
Uh, they've always had the 
equal opportunity to fish,

NOTE Confidence: 0.816244959831238

cabd5321-3500-4cae-8c9a-e8e2b4ac667c
00:04:56.730 --> 00:04:58.678
and they've always been
able to fish in the reservation,

NOTE Confidence: 0.816244959831238

014b6da8-7ed9-42e2-9188-07fbc3003efb
00:04:58.678 --> 00:05:01.880
even when we couldn't fish.
That's always been their right.

NOTE Confidence: 0.816244959831238

8517b057-1155-4a49-9b5c-4e0a3354590f
00:05:01.880 --> 00:05:04.100
So nobody has been trying to
take this away from them.

NOTE Confidence: 0.843884110450745

b168f840-3279-48f8-9368-b71fecb89398
00:05:05.630 --> 00:05:08.500
To me it's kind of uh, kind of hard
to comprehend it. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.843884110450745

f5c568fd-c093-464a-b982-8e0704c2f399
00:05:08.500 --> 00:05:12.250
Uh, I read the decision, 
or the treaty, through many times 

NOTE Confidence: 0.843884110450745

3ced2746-c19d-4b5d-b430-f460cacdd093
00:05:12.250 --> 00:05:14.720
and it's very simple,
forward language to me, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.806115508079529

25a66d35-dcf2-4960-af16-ab666a070179
00:05:14.720 --> 00:05:18.480
and it seems as though it's been
really kind of twisted 

00:05:18.480 --> 00:05:19.950
into a different meaning. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.806115508079529

461113e5-0d8e-4127-be29-e71ba04c234d
00:05:19.950 --> 00:05:24.380
When you read it it's quite evident 
what it means to my way of thinking,

NOTE Confidence: 0.806115508079529

ec9ebd28-df5f-4cce-a474-4531ed542541
00:05:24.380 --> 00:05:26.446
uh, from a layman's standpoint. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.806115508079529

1a1cc0a8-a7de-4e32-9ebf-c39b4d749a28
00:05:26.446 --> 00:05:30.956
And I think that it was written by
basically laymen, and, two laymen,

NOTE Confidence: 0.806115508079529

3ea5edb8-2dff-43e5-9013-f6412e4c4b6d
00:05:30.956 --> 00:05:35.650
'cause people weren't so sophisticated 
in those days that they were

NOTE Confidence: 0.806115508079529

fc57c4c0-9733-4af3-a8eb-df117c36eacd
00:05:35.650 --> 00:05:39.050
trying to write something 
to defer people, I don't believe. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.806115508079529

ac43e339-5741-4399-82e0-9351c90ec62e
00:05:39.050 --> 00:05:43.480
And uh, the big uh, crux
of the Boldt decision 

00:05:43.480 --> 00:05:45.950
is the word or words "in common," 
which uh,

NOTE Confidence: 0.806115508079529

bdba9cbe-3cb7-4b8c-a37c-03107d6b8b33
00:05:45.950 --> 00:05:50.000
Boldt has decided means 50% 
of all the fish go to the Indians.

NOTE Confidence: 0.831242680549622

3966a664-8342-4024-ae19-fbe750b6d7c7
00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:52.500
But uh, I can see the word "in common" 

NOTE Confidence: 0.831242680549622

aa62b7b5-5dc0-43b3-a379-4c9cc47646d8
00:05:52.500 --> 00:05:55.900
in a couple of different places
in that treaty, and uh, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.831242680549622

9e8bad21-e56d-40ef-9ae1-ddd76fde6735
00:05:55.900 --> 00:05:59.900
in the next place that the words 
"in common" come, are used, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.831242680549622

b534372b-4139-4796-9f4b-14fa48dac95f
00:05:59.900 --> 00:06:01.900
it wouldn't make any sense at all 
to use 50%.

NOTE Confidence: 0.831242680549622

5c512a4f-6df9-473b-8ba2-1e527700d034
00:06:01.900 --> 00:06:04.900
If you're gonna supposed to have 
10 or 15 different tribes 

NOTE Confidence: 0.831242680549622

86a219c9-f0c8-4b27-8312-7e025fd6fd0e
00:06:04.900 --> 00:06:08.950
using one school in common that means 
you probably have 600%, 700%. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.831242680549622

444ee359-3a0d-4005-bea4-6e4ceed59947
00:06:08.950 --> 00:06:12.350
So I can't uh, I can't quite
understand the reasoning. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.831242680549622

85821f29-b84f-4881-b45d-4898fec985e5
00:06:12.350 --> 00:06:15.800
And to me what this decision has 
really done is created a super citizen. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.831242680549622

18889dee-8085-465a-826f-ae158a25f6bf
00:06:15.800 --> 00:06:18.850
It means that uh, I'm not really 
an equal citizen to the Indian, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.831242680549622

448cd9b1-6263-44d0-8aeb-7a8692445fd0
00:06:18.850 --> 00:06:21.400
he's a super citizen to
anybody in the United States.

NOTE Confidence: 0.88682895898819

8d202764-78b4-49d7-90e0-10ce9fd9a09c
00:06:23.590 --> 00:06:27.740
(narrator)
If the Indian is a super citizen, 
the treaties have made him so,

NOTE Confidence: 0.88682895898819

39ec03bd-bf51-4613-90ae-6bb6f94fcacd
00:06:27.740 --> 00:06:31.760
for treaties are essentially 
contracts between nations

NOTE Confidence: 0.88682895898819

f66858d6-56ac-4339-aaac-7bc01f2420ce
00:06:31.760 --> 00:06:33.550
and cannot be disregarded.

NOTE Confidence: 0.847027480602264

c31b947f-efe9-45ae-9e75-197af768d3de
00:06:34.740 --> 00:06:37.756
Judge Boldt did not hand down 
his decision lightly. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.847027480602264

71ba996e-1083-4256-a19a-52e8aa57e872
00:06:37.756 --> 00:06:41.986
There were 3 1/2 years of preparation 
before the final decree. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.847027480602264

f2145f26-1589-4fec-be61-5f0c63af7815
00:06:41.986 --> 00:06:44.565
Fact and precedent, 
meetings and testimony.

NOTE Confidence: 0.875488519668579

0dce540d-98e2-4fe9-960b-191999453834
00:06:46.020 --> 00:06:48.982
He spent months studying 
the actual wording of the treaties

NOTE Confidence: 0.875488519668579

639dda57-9768-4d7c-b016-6a0a1f0da205
00:06:48.982 --> 00:06:51.522
in order to interpret them 
as they were understood

NOTE Confidence: 0.875488519668579

ddf89f0d-3b86-42f1-8be6-d8e56d5ab657
00:06:51.522 --> 00:06:53.820
by the Indians of that day. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.875488519668579

df41beea-5964-4199-aafb-959a1fe762bf
00:06:53.820 --> 00:06:56.980
In common law, it's a basic principle 
of the advant-[audio cuts] 

NOTE Confidence: 0.854875981807709

fbd8cc1f-2a62-4dbe-90ab-c333a54450ea
00:06:57.300 --> 00:06:59.960
-must go to the one 
most ignorant of the law. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.854875981807709

e7fec619-5b7c-4da5-a2a7-cb4e08400e4a
00:07:01.100 --> 00:07:04.990
The Indians right to fish 
at usual and accustomed places is

37c7d598-9688-4679-9267-2e4002f60a17
00:07:04.990 --> 00:07:09.880
a property right that treaty Indians 
inherited from their ancestors.

NOTE Confidence: 0.807295143604279

1245133a-5c76-427f-9d94-9c2191297d6a
00:07:11.900 --> 00:07:16.980
(speaker #9)
Oh, well I've had some people tell me, 
you know white people,

NOTE Confidence: 0.807295143604279

cf499f20-49c4-4f1a-b2c9-50506f8fe0a9
00:07:16.980 --> 00:07:19.870
whatever you wanna call 'em, 
I've had 'em say that

NOTE Confidence: 0.807295143604279

a966571d-f0a6-4b05-b48f-154ccf375cb7
00:07:19.870 --> 00:07:22.400
they're glad that Indians 
got the right to fish 

NOTE Confidence: 0.807295143604279

fca375ff-661e-4510-89f0-1fbf2dbd50a2
00:07:22.400 --> 00:07:26.971
'cause you know, it's something 
in their heritage among us.

NOTE Confidence: 0.521235167980194

98292be9-d89f-43c0-b583-cbcbe3fbdd4d
00:07:26.971 --> 00:07:29.170
And, that's about all I have 
to say about that.

NOTE Confidence: 0.856379389762878

e03c1066-940c-4c61-bbc0-eaa476a3945c
00:07:31.970 --> 00:07:35.465
(narrator)
Still, most fishermen are upset 
about the decision.

NOTE Confidence: 0.856379389762878

00658de8-203b-4615-ba94-b90d2ccda0ca
00:07:35.465 --> 00:07:37.915
And not only those 
fishing for a living. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.856379389762878

413021f5-5751-41a7-aab5-b1106cbf98e7
00:07:37.915 --> 00:07:41.275
Sportsmen too, place high value 
on their right to fish, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.856379389762878

5d76ec76-a713-4102-9987-10ed4d8cdeb5
00:07:41.275 --> 00:07:44.780
and they fear their catch 
will be even more elusive. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.856379389762878

bf79937b-6a91-4886-90e0-f2f3f6230ce9
00:07:44.780 --> 00:07:46.780
There are over 1/2 million 
sports fishermen 

00:07:46.780 --> 00:07:47.980
in the State of Washington. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.856379389762878

8ca28806-2eea-456b-9c86-6caf793bdddd
00:07:47.930 --> 00:07:50.835
They're a vocal group, 
adamant in defense of their right 

NOTE Confidence: 0.856379389762878

a4bd1efc-706b-4279-b450-4300f4e97beb
00:07:50.835 --> 00:07:52.930
to fish for salmon and steelhead. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.856379389762878

230076fe-4a34-47c3-9e6d-8a7d3ae64868
00:07:52.930 --> 00:07:55.955
And backing up both commercial 
and sports fishermen, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.856379389762878

587f1882-6b08-4b76-a2d5-b8788af32239
00:07:55.955 --> 00:07:58.900
are the support industries: 
the boat builders, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.817922174930573

b1a44a92-a794-4d40-ae65-20d67740af88
00:07:58.900 --> 00:08:02.988
the gear and supply businesses,
the marina and charter boat operators. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.817922174930573

2c1ceeba-6278-4b6e-ac83-1459dc722f20
00:08:02.988 --> 00:08:05.498
Stan Kaufman, 
owner of a rental boathouse, 

00:08:05.498 --> 00:08:08.500
feels that everyone except the Indian 
will suffer.

NOTE Confidence: 0.833965539932251

fdd672ba-1d16-415d-8598-9ca5280d9690
00:08:08.500 --> 00:08:12.900
(Stan Kaufman)
And with this continuation 
of the Boldt decision as it is today,

NOTE Confidence: 0.833965539932251

ee9c9a41-fd8d-4aaa-b9d6-3643213483ed
00:08:12.900 --> 00:08:14.860
the Puget Sound salmon fishing 

NOTE Confidence: 0.833965539932251

d88a6847-36c3-47eb-86a1-f7a57f99a69b
00:08:14.860 --> 00:08:17.860
is gonna be strictly on 
a small basis. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.833965539932251

3ec810d8-deb5-4e50-a65a-fe89aa38771d
00:08:17.860 --> 00:08:19.960
The ocean fishing is gonna 
suffer just as badly

NOTE Confidence: 0.792912781238556

db293ddb-d830-40b9-afce-0fd87af4fa4d
00:08:19.960 --> 00:08:24.800
because our rivers, which are,
are terminating into the sound here, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.792912781238556

1cec0706-0588-40f9-ab0e-cc8257d05d8f
00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:27.964
are the rivers that we're 
talking about on this Indian thing.

NOTE Confidence: 0.84571236371994

a1a81e5e-1169-494e-8323-6b3613d30d90
00:08:27.964 --> 00:08:31.200
And, uh, I, I just have thought
ever since it was put out,

NOTE Confidence: 0.844529569149017

0ff17690-3bef-4049-9df9-89d9ab5016a9
00:08:31.200 --> 00:08:32.624
I would not condemn the Indian

NOTE Confidence: 0.844529569149017

35fcadc8-82fc-47cd-b062-f6170de6e651
00:08:32.624 --> 00:08:34.306
because I went to school 
with Indians here. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.844529569149017

76a34c21-0c20-42a0-93ac-bc0f2771b1cd
00:08:34.306 --> 00:08:36.980
I know the Indian, I know what he 
did with the fish trap in here.

NOTE Confidence: 0.844529569149017

a96261ae-f5d5-4a47-93c4-891b40fc11d7
00:08:36.980 --> 00:08:39.988
His conservation purposes 
were similar

NOTE Confidence: 0.877259314060211

2c788809-a507-4f2c-bf56-3bec20ebead2
00:08:39.988 --> 00:08:42.900
with what our Department fishers 
are doing today. 

00:08:42.900 --> 00:08:44.813
At the same time, 
he's getting on a bandwagon

NOTE Confidence: 0.877259314060211

8860db3a-107c-4dc9-adbe-6a8bf3b39c55
00:08:44.813 --> 00:08:47.790
which he as an original American, 
I am a minority,

NOTE Confidence: 0.877259314060211

2d386c8e-1e76-4b71-9eb8-a656d3191fb0
00:08:47.790 --> 00:08:49.393
and these minority rights, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.877259314060211

d323e7e2-1a0c-40ec-9e82-306a070358b3
00:08:49.393 --> 00:08:52.038
I don't believe have 
any preference over you or I.

NOTE Confidence: 0.851185321807861

f8976516-dbb4-4bd1-80c3-601eaa801382
00:08:53.040 --> 00:08:55.750
Our Constitution says 
that we're all to share 

NOTE Confidence: 0.902603387832642

a6a3f94a-eee2-49ca-821c-5aedc84bb79a
00:08:55.750 --> 00:09:00.961
in our country's goods, 
our countries benefits, equally. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.827047049999237

60b386f6-9fae-4f05-b57e-1061c7d2d835
00:09:00.961 --> 00:09:04.348
(narrator)
Each new development
seems to bring an angry reaction.

NOTE Confidence: 0.827047049999237

ccc17bd8-86bd-4cdb-906f-c36be77865e0
00:09:04.348 --> 00:09:06.916
Rules for sportfishing
are complicated. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.827047049999237

2def6e57-3e7d-4315-b458-48507137b850
00:09:06.916 --> 00:09:09.850
Each salmon species may have 
a different regulation 

NOTE Confidence: 0.827047049999237

cdd2f38d-e3cf-4a90-a011-7204b9e279b7
00:09:09.850 --> 00:09:12.980
for different types of fishermen 
and fishing areas.

NOTE Confidence: 0.827047049999237

a97457c0-50ff-4028-bc84-406fbad79e02
00:09:12.980 --> 00:09:15.716
Reduced days to fish 
and shortened seasons 

00:09:15.716 --> 00:09:18.300
also make sportsmen 
understandably unhappy.

NOTE Confidence: 0.827047049999237

38b63555-1352-4d98-a216-8f42fef30818
00:09:18.300 --> 00:09:20.168
Ed Manary is one of them. 

00:09:20.168 --> 00:09:24.500
(Ed Manary)
Yes uh, we have felt the effects 
starting in August '75.

NOTE Confidence: 0.827047049999237

fe733f7d-ff7d-4b4c-aad1-af578b4bccb6
00:09:24.500 --> 00:09:25.974
The sport fishery in Puget Sound

NOTE Confidence: 0.827047049999237

4f46fd5d-c57e-432f-94c1-1c4c5a2e0330
00:09:25.974 --> 00:09:30.984
became definitely affected uh,
by the decision that Judge Boldt uh.

NOTE Confidence: 0.827912092208862

7851fbf1-9bb4-457d-a1bb-3051e1ba74cc
00:09:30.984 --> 00:09:33.553
Last year in August, we of course 
started with the closures

NOTE Confidence: 0.827912092208862

057a7817-6d7b-45d6-999a-81580a5d69bc
00:09:33.553 --> 00:09:37.973
here in Puget Sound, that uh,
were not biologically justified

NOTE Confidence: 0.827912092208862

d35b47a0-d23d-40d8-8f24-561bdb7a3d2c
00:09:37.973 --> 00:09:40.350
from the standpoint of the
recreational fishery, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.827912092208862

2fabc6a9-85cb-4041-96ad-ecd93e4736c8
00:09:40.350 --> 00:09:43.526
as the fish that we were 
shut off from capturing, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.827912092208862

caaa1cec-bc5f-4465-ab1f-722dc5e7a42d
00:09:43.526 --> 00:09:46.956
we have very little success 
in intercepting here 

NOTE Confidence: 0.827912092208862

1ebe2c44-41bc-4948-886b-6ebc0ddffa77
00:09:46.956 --> 00:09:49.601
as we're close to their 
spawning grounds in Puget Sound. 

00:09:49.601 --> 00:09:52.980
We have to lift in the face 
of a 20 inch uh, size limit,

NOTE Confidence: 0.827912092208862

ff16eaf8-2e0d-4722-9770-64de6a25fb58
00:09:52.980 --> 00:09:58.960
and a large part of the fishery is on 
the small, immature Chinook salmon,

NOTE Confidence: 0.827912092208862

c6979885-e4fe-4d03-a7d2-c785eea5c92b
00:09:58.960 --> 00:10:02.070
that uh, we're no longer 
going to be able to retain,

NOTE Confidence: 0.892257511615753

db098e80-7cc4-4835-8199-830e8d8b7fcd
00:10:02.070 --> 00:10:06.080
so, we're now really feeling 
the effects of it, uh, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.892257511615753

9be83a1c-8d4a-4fcd-872c-f957ca438e6b
00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:08.764
and I would assume that 
at the rate we're going 

NOTE Confidence: 0.892257511615753

29b830ce-89fb-46d2-afda-8e0d9ad078c3
00:10:08.764 --> 00:10:09.934
we're going to continue to
feel the effects 

NOTE Confidence: 0.892257511615753

7cde04cf-3bd6-4e55-b6cd-1e049341d3be
00:10:09.934 --> 00:10:11.936
in possibly even more 
stringent manners 

NOTE Confidence: 0.804041087627411

7977f01c-a4ca-4e14-a884-8377b04d54ff
00:10:11.936 --> 00:10:14.970
as we get later into the season
here this year. 

00:10:14.970 --> 00:10:17.100
(narrator)
Steelhead sportsmen 
may be the angriest.

NOTE Confidence: 0.804041087627411

48abe611-0edf-48b1-a73d-84bd0c463164
00:10:17.100 --> 00:10:19.956
They must fish with hook and line, 
and they claim that 

NOTE Confidence: 0.804041087627411

df80855f-b75d-47a5-b873-db742f2c2180
00:10:19.956 --> 00:10:23.938
Indian nets down the stream 
are taking nearly all the steelhead. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.804041087627411

021399b5-ee22-422e-a080-59381e20d962
00:10:23.938 --> 00:10:26.986
(Mike Shockman)
The short term net effect of 
the management of the Boldt decision 

NOTE Confidence: 0.804041087627411

6ead99f3-0607-4d3b-9aed-bbb31a01d4f0
00:10:26.986 --> 00:10:29.984
on the steelhead management 
in the state of Washington 

NOTE Confidence: 0.804041087627411

fef98ad3-33a6-48c4-a8a6-cb63cd44884c
00:10:29.984 --> 00:10:34.946
has been one that basically uh, 
splits or attempts to split 

NOTE Confidence: 0.804041087627411

902ef240-3556-4329-8613-4e785c047535
00:10:34.946 --> 00:10:37.958
the steelhead resource between 
the treaty Indian fishermen 

NOTE Confidence: 0.804041087627411

4a806619-e6d9-4e13-a92f-e0d634b440de
00:10:37.958 --> 00:10:40.952
and the sport fisherman. 
Quite frankly, uh, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.804041087627411

e106e741-4806-44f9-a503-176a281dd73d
00:10:40.952 --> 00:10:44.462
given the guidelines that Judge Boldt 
has asked us to operate on,

NOTE Confidence: 0.85152530670166

60e634c5-49f1-4544-b157-23416b9fb98d
00:10:44.462 --> 00:10:46.970
the split has been 
a very ineffective one. 

00:10:47.710 --> 00:10:49.460
Primarily because of the placement

NOTE Confidence: 0.85152530670166

a0caddfd-9220-4933-89b6-52914fa34df5
00:10:49.460 --> 00:10:51.985
of the Indian fishery uh,
prior to the sport fishery,

NOTE Confidence: 0.85152530670166

8e1143d5-1c65-450c-b5c3-74b50845618a
00:10:51.985 --> 00:10:54.855
the treaty fisherman 
has the opportunity

NOTE Confidence: 0.85152530670166

95f9f1e9-fcd5-4e8a-810a-d8d51db6d311
00:10:54.855 --> 00:10:59.460
and has exercised that opportunity,
to take the lion share of the fish.

NOTE Confidence: 0.786696493625641

e49804a0-c3a3-46f2-8295-7243151cbea3
00:11:00.110 --> 00:11:02.990
(narrator)
Enhancement is a concern 
of all fishermen. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.786696493625641

aed9703d-d042-4195-872e-9a930a81719e
00:11:02.990 --> 00:11:05.980
Eight hundred thousand coho 
were recently released 

00:11:05.980 --> 00:11:08.500
from this Tulalip rearing pond. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.786696493625641

994ab1df-254b-4525-a079-2368ebaf9dab
00:11:08.500 --> 00:11:10.980
Lummi, Muckleshoot, Quinault, 
and other tribes 

NOTE Confidence: 0.786696493625641

098b8141-bb56-4e0c-86b6-273c10a1dbdf
00:11:10.980 --> 00:11:15.974
also have enhancement programs, 
many begun since the Boldt decision.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885368227958679

148df66f-0bc2-494e-93fa-2fed60e1e2b1
00:11:15.974 --> 00:11:17.680
As they have a right to fish, 

00:11:17.680 --> 00:11:20.100
they have a responsibility 
for management.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885368227958679

d6b1ddf9-0125-484d-82f7-879bf5d9c4ef
00:11:20.100 --> 00:11:22.120
Judge Boldt required 
that the Indians have

NOTE Confidence: 0.885368227958679

250cbf82-056a-4faf-b92f-e388f3a33d30
00:11:22.120 --> 00:11:25.970
responsible tribal leadership, 
qualified biologists,

NOTE Confidence: 0.885368227958679

d9ec20f2-0ac3-4cb8-9480-5724490845bd
00:11:25.970 --> 00:11:29.020
full regulations, 
and effective enforcement.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885763168334961

b442c115-5969-4110-a156-e303159de9d5
00:11:29.020 --> 00:11:32.366
Indians take their responsibilities 
seriously.

NOTE Confidence: 0.893261730670929

6f3fab2c-5994-4c82-8d46-159223be22d2
00:11:34.100 --> 00:11:39.600
(Helen Keeline)
Well, I'd like to, to say that 
Indian people are conservation minded,

NOTE Confidence: 0.893261730670929

468bda4d-3995-4b70-9a81-111e6ef7ea80
00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:41.300
they have been for years.

NOTE Confidence: 0.893261730670929

a18f45e3-47de-4435-ad40-19764396b703
00:11:41.972 --> 00:11:46.502
And we don't write up our 
tribal regulations in just an hour.

NOTE Confidence: 0.864241778850555

3ad5e411-11eb-4fdd-92c4-e152f58aec24
00:11:47.200 --> 00:11:48.850
We have many meetings on 'em. 

00:11:48.850 --> 00:11:51.220
We have biological technical 
assistance.

NOTE Confidence: 0.864241778850555

c0c8c41a-d383-42de-9699-123d1857ed08
00:11:51.220 --> 00:11:54.580
We have our attorneys involved, 
many tribal leaders,

NOTE Confidence: 0.864241778850555

cecd4ec7-f991-406a-ab3d-c51c6e0ef7f6
00:11:54.580 --> 00:11:58.734
and we know what we're doing. 
And when we adopt these regulations,

NOTE Confidence: 0.864241778850555

1ec5ccdf-c3db-4b17-9947-854d7d0aad90
00:11:58.734 --> 00:12:04.902
we expect our tribal fishermen 
to uh implement these,

NOTE Confidence: 0.864241778850555

493eb9b9-6dae-40b4-be98-e7d0edd3ce66
00:12:04.902 --> 00:12:07.750
and one thing that I would 
like to get away from 

NOTE Confidence: 0.864241778850555

1de61ea5-0431-4e65-a34f-b56d2e4a85bf
00:12:07.750 --> 00:12:11.606
is the state constantly 
sending us letters 

NOTE Confidence: 0.864241778850555

bba9eb07-e445-46df-866f-19285621b1e6
00:12:11.606 --> 00:12:14.958
and telling us to close this 
and they're going to open that. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.864241778850555

6cdbb08f-aa53-4cc7-902d-32f365012b53
00:12:14.958 --> 00:12:17.938
They no longer have the,
the right to do this

NOTE Confidence: 0.894149780273438

8a5eab8c-cca2-4b8c-9ea5-48ae25019178
00:12:17.910 --> 00:12:20.000
unless there is 
a conservation problem, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.894149780273438

5a9f6bc1-74ea-4b16-b4ba-e6a5d6e1a817
00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:22.960
and if there is a 
conservation problem 

00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:25.970
we're here for them 
to come to negotiate with,

NOTE Confidence: 0.894149780273438

34983d21-bfba-4804-9724-c1aaec6bc8ce
00:12:25.970 --> 00:12:28.580
and they can come and talk with us 
before they start

NOTE Confidence: 0.894149780273438

01e1dae4-9d23-4b8a-bdf1-7cf4b6acd2f7
00:12:28.580 --> 00:12:31.000
sending out their flyers 
and their letters. 

00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:35.970
(Donald Moos)
Our Department has really only 
one particular duty,

NOTE Confidence: 0.894149780273438

244c664e-fa25-4877-a38b-b1d75aed8762
00:12:35.970 --> 00:12:36.980
so to speak, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.894149780273438

a2d0d7d0-e9f7-4f84-908e-b8a469fc9e6b
00:12:36.980 --> 00:12:40.120
in the charge that they give me 
in the statute.

NOTE Confidence: 0.838931322097778

4606d45a-93a3-4595-9268-828e94f9e410
00:12:40.120 --> 00:12:42.500
And that is to conserve the resource.

00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:48.980
Uh, we close seasons 
to conserve the resource, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.874446988105774

226c418b-3c81-4d6a-8360-d80dd9c6fb58
00:12:48.980 --> 00:12:52.980
and if we lose our ability 
to close a season

NOTE Confidence: 0.874446988105774

ef8029f9-1cde-4bdf-9f64-9c53442ecb21
00:12:52.980 --> 00:12:57.880
when we think the escapement is uh, 
is getting to a point

NOTE Confidence: 0.874446988105774

66d7e75b-6076-47d6-99a5-d2338afbc704
00:12:57.880 --> 00:13:03.595
where we do not have enough escapement, 
if we lose that uh, opportunity,

NOTE Confidence: 0.874446988105774

8ca40c4e-c55a-4192-9112-a91555287faa
00:13:03.595 --> 00:13:06.500
and many times this comes 
quite rapidly that we have to do that,

NOTE Confidence: 0.874446988105774

c268f948-4a59-4484-8b68-80f208475faa
00:13:06.500 --> 00:13:09.500
then we have lost 
one of the main things

NOTE Confidence: 0.874446988105774

2a50e0be-c11a-48c3-9dd7-1787981f4a0a
00:13:09.500 --> 00:13:12.250
that the Legislature and the people 
had set out 

NOTE Confidence: 0.874446988105774

a92151e3-be41-4f54-8367-1c68b2106116
00:13:12.250 --> 00:13:13.938
that we were supposed to do. 

00:13:13.938 --> 00:13:17.560
(narrator)
Many feel the Boldt decision 
denies them their civil rights.

NOTE Confidence: 0.640373528003693

4f66d705-f5c1-44a6-b1f3-8b291cda1b5f
00:13:17.560 --> 00:13:19.988
Gig Harbor gillnetter,
Ralph Sulich, says:

NOTE Confidence: 0.855279207229614

96499338-4b5b-4100-8577-0e32ab9e7408
00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:21.894
(Ralph Sulich)
Civil rights? 
Yeah, well I mean,  

NOTE Confidence: 0.855279207229614

54f5dffd-cb40-42a1-b573-3e2fedfe3ae2
00:13:21.894 --> 00:13:24.996
we just actually lost them,
we don't have anymore rights, period. 

00:13:24.996 --> 00:13:27.996
I mean, we don't have 
any civil rights left.

NOTE Confidence: 0.830368220806122

ed630928-84cc-46cc-aa19-f1396a7964ff
00:13:27.996 --> 00:13:31.150
Uh, the Boldt decision,
I mean, if it's enforced,

NOTE Confidence: 0.830368220806122

b9260666-04ef-454e-845e-02989e810aef
00:13:31.150 --> 00:13:33.500
I mean it just takes it away from us.

NOTE Confidence: 0.830368220806122

796275f7-ac4e-4224-acd4-613cf68e4143
00:13:33.500 --> 00:13:36.900
But there's no state laws, 
there's no laws in the state books today 

NOTE Confidence: 0.818423748016357

3379ed59-5ed4-428d-8d1d-59e9fc2cfaa6
00:13:36.900 --> 00:13:38.980
that permit 'em to enforce it. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.818423748016357

c08b1fd9-d681-49a4-8ab9-8869b37e8f93
00:13:38.980 --> 00:13:42.924
The state hasn't got the authority 
to enforce the Boldt decision. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.818423748016357

231543c4-7f8e-4fbe-8ead-3f57cfa0a8a0
00:13:42.924 --> 00:13:46.800
So I mean, until they do 
or until it's forced upon 'em 

NOTE Confidence: 0.818423748016357

d376d71f-2771-4c17-bb76-557181645488
00:13:46.800 --> 00:13:49.950
by the federal government, 
we're going, I mean, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.867875874042511

3f568490-bb22-40d4-9618-6db4aa31f4f6
00:13:49.950 --> 00:13:52.570
we'll still continue to fish,
and we'll have our rights.

NOTE Confidence: 0.874001681804657

2baf6925-1515-4744-bf6d-0e1c3e5e57ed
00:13:53.920 --> 00:13:56.740
But uh, 

00:13:56.740 --> 00:13:58.970
how long will it be before 
they do or not, I don't know.

NOTE Confidence: 0.874001681804657

c24eebff-90dd-40b8-92b1-d6ed79a0ae13
00:13:58.970 --> 00:14:02.420
I mean 'cause I'm gonna  
continue fishing, period. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.874001681804657

b4b15ab1-abd3-4690-a415-8cf1e8a4a44c
00:14:02.420 --> 00:14:05.050
I mean, there's you know, 
I have no doubt in my mind, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.874001681804657

48a99c2e-81ea-43b3-9f54-8bfa211fb87c
00:14:05.050 --> 00:14:06.720
and I don't think the
State Department of Fisheries

NOTE Confidence: 0.874001681804657

cf83d2f4-17f6-43a7-926e-c379e7e4ab8e
00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:08.750
has any doubt in their mind 
that we're gonna, 

00:14:08.750 --> 00:14:10.010
myself and other people like me, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.874001681804657

d85b77c4-52f8-4d59-9da6-992a54e6f919
00:14:10.010 --> 00:14:12.224
are gonna fish every day 
that an Indian fishes.

NOTE Confidence: 0.871126472949982

a355da5e-25f6-43e4-b33d-5e6d5605de30
00:14:12.224 --> 00:14:16.948
So I mean, it's uh, it's just until
they decide to put us in jail.

NOTE Confidence: 0.871126472949982

1819e327-b878-4698-8590-2572d9d0b444
00:14:16.948 --> 00:14:19.800
That's all. 
When they do well, then, that- that- 

NOTE Confidence: 0.871126472949982

b3875e27-75e3-43e9-a5e9-8e3142db6f43
00:14:19.800 --> 00:14:21.410
then they'll make it come to pass.

NOTE Confidence: 0.803979396820068

e40c8b06-4d7f-45a5-821b-919ccbf76ba6
00:14:21.900 --> 00:14:24.500
They'll make an illegal decision
come to pass, 

00:14:24.500 --> 00:14:25.870
and that's just how it'll be.

NOTE Confidence: 0.828433036804199

143b24ae-2050-4d71-bc54-9e3c0b2e903e
00:14:27.230 --> 00:14:29.600
(narrator)
Not only fishermen but the
families of fishermen 

NOTE Confidence: 0.828433036804199

9dbdc613-caf2-434d-beef-3bb12232ab53
00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:32.962
are affected by the decision.
Esther Sulich. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.828433036804199

9414273c-d3a7-47ce-b4a5-646324d66c5a
00:14:32.962 --> 00:14:35.010
(Esther Sulich)
I've always been very proud 
of my husband's work,

NOTE Confidence: 0.828433036804199

bef644e4-ed9e-409a-8b1d-c8a4435bb713
00:14:35.010 --> 00:14:36.920
and all of a sudden 
we're the bad guys, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.828433036804199

e4c0d1d9-c3c9-4916-921f-fc45bb82dc23
00:14:36.920 --> 00:14:39.700
we're taking something away 
from the poor Indian 

NOTE Confidence: 0.884095788002014

bbd8337f-0994-453f-9ed9-fc349e736399
00:14:39.700 --> 00:14:41.236
who's never had anything.

NOTE Confidence: 0.884095788002014

ece4a228-0715-4a62-bea6-6b19ceb7b677
00:14:42.836 --> 00:14:48.771
And, it's just awfully hard to accept 
that what you're doing is, is wrong.

NOTE Confidence: 0.856613337993622

4cf6146a-1ac3-414f-8d0c-c56fb7d6bc78
00:14:50.240 --> 00:14:56.750
And uh, I always figured- y'know when, 
well when the kids were raised, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.856613337993622

5d98b0b4-515b-4119-afb6-88b5a30cb717
00:14:56.750 --> 00:14:59.975
that I'd go out on the boat 
with Ralph and we'd,

NOTE Confidence: 0.867657363414764

9efad2f3-1f66-420e-b32f-b0cecd3d19d9
00:14:59.975 --> 00:15:02.990
I mean it's beautiful out there, 
you just can't imagine.

NOTE Confidence: 0.867657363414764

b60e42bd-be14-4534-a640-f1a8c70ef06c
00:15:02.990 --> 00:15:05.400
It's you know in the, 
especially in the summer time 

NOTE Confidence: 0.867657363414764

609008c7-7068-4192-a594-243942890349
00:15:05.400 --> 00:15:07.800
on the salmon banks and down here 
in the fall.

00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:11.010
[water flowing]

NOTE Confidence: 0.861841320991516

1b7fc174-396a-4326-bfa0-e5eb88ad9e1e
00:15:11.010 --> 00:15:13.100
(Ralph Sulich)
Uh, most people feel 
that the fishermen 

NOTE Confidence: 0.861841320991516

a3ebcad2-ac04-4bdd-94ee-98e984c03bc6
00:15:13.100 --> 00:15:15.010
are just trying to take 
all of the fish out of the sound, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.861841320991516

d961e01a-434a-4cae-a199-c9b5056cfc40
00:15:15.010 --> 00:15:19.020
but, we have a few here in Gig Harbor
that are putting some back in it. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.861841320991516

e2d1b4c4-60ab-49cc-9652-adefe55a36db
00:15:19.854 --> 00:15:22.084
Last year was probably
our biggest release,

NOTE Confidence: 0.815315186977386

4375d87d-498f-4e1e-9913-d3e7298ba53b
00:15:22.084 --> 00:15:28.980
and we released here between 
300,000 and 400,000 fish, 

00:15:28.980 --> 00:15:31.260
fry from this, from this 
particular site 

NOTE Confidence: 0.815315186977386

f76ebe5e-550f-4bf6-8e47-0956eb2adc09
00:15:31.260 --> 00:15:34.760
and for chums it was 
quite a substantial release.

NOTE Confidence: 0.849836707115173

52e2fafd-a4ac-49d3-99b8-939e32e01ca5
00:15:36.880 --> 00:15:38.952
If the state probably had 
put this facility in, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.849836707115173

9e27f07e-2626-48d4-98d7-2336c30044eb
00:15:38.952 --> 00:15:45.500
it would have probably cost $20,000. 
I mean, this was, our cost was

NOTE Confidence: 0.849836707115173

372c656c-20e2-44fd-92b1-c6edfada6d6c
00:15:45.500 --> 00:15:49.826
between $1000 and $1200,
donated all by local fishermen

NOTE Confidence: 0.849836707115173

17d40ca5-1942-46c7-af8d-a060e4c801b3
00:15:49.826 --> 00:15:53.746
in Gig Harbor, and, all the work 
is 'course volunteer.

NOTE Confidence: 0.861443281173706

0367386c-cf68-4061-9c65-d6bb578f5b01
00:15:54.820 --> 00:15:57.445
(narrator)
Protecting the fisheries' resource 
has been the mandate 

NOTE Confidence: 0.861443281173706

e068055b-7227-4e9c-aaa1-7deefa73a7cc
00:15:57.445 --> 00:16:00.465
of the State Department of Fisheries 
since its beginning.

NOTE Confidence: 0.861443281173706

08646416-ecad-4eb2-b3d8-3dea1d0c7fed
00:16:00.465 --> 00:16:03.480
State hatcheries were started 
in the 1890s. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.861443281173706

b0c7b515-3cd6-4d9c-adac-a04c27ab281c
00:16:03.480 --> 00:16:06.175
Today there are some 28 in operation.

NOTE Confidence: 0.845694184303284

12f1a494-c84b-4a7e-afb1-ee4902945c83
00:16:07.130 --> 00:16:09.600
The University of Washington
College of Fisheries, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.845694184303284

8f42ee72-c7a8-4d65-b6fe-88e761d86506
00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:12.700
as well as the
US National Marine Fisheries Service, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.845694184303284

ac42cb07-3fb1-4ed5-8dbc-f5bbd103e366
00:16:12.700 --> 00:16:15.964
often cooperate with the state
in the continuing fisheries research. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.845694184303284

7567a796-65e5-451b-90a9-be840f745b1e
00:16:16.600 --> 00:16:19.700
New methods of feeding 
and rearing are tested, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.845694184303284

69a43e6f-88b5-4359-b056-2e0eb38b4dcf
00:16:19.700 --> 00:16:22.700
aimed not only at increasing 
the number of fish,

NOTE Confidence: 0.845694184303284

2e163bd1-5c82-4810-9138-192fa36daf99
00:16:22.700 --> 00:16:26.968
but at producing hardier stocks
with higher survival rates.

NOTE Confidence: 0.845694184303284

a71980f9-562d-4a7e-b266-e3d9854aa277
00:16:26.968 --> 00:16:31.450
Urbanization, high seas fishing,
interception off the Canadian coast, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.845694184303284

04dba57b-57cd-4a2a-84ff-235505400bfe
00:16:31.450 --> 00:16:34.635
all contribute to the depletion 
of the salmon stock.

NOTE Confidence: 0.845694184303284

b33c6f10-96fa-44ae-9f1e-96b087ee31a0
00:16:34.635 --> 00:16:37.750
With so many fishermen 
all pursuing the salmon,

NOTE Confidence: 0.87846976518631

f4728773-35a4-4d48-aef8-899e2e86c510
00:16:37.750 --> 00:16:40.800
the resource would vanish
without the enhancement programs.

00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:51.980
[peaceful instrumental music]

NOTE Confidence: 0.88795667886734

64d967c5-57bb-4cc5-82ae-7dc5738d6716
00:16:51.980 --> 00:16:54.750
In recent years the salmon catch
in Puget Sound 

NOTE Confidence: 0.88795667886734

b73f46b7-7b41-4427-b375-b2b219b60375
00:16:54.750 --> 00:16:57.650
was about the same as 25 years ago, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.88795667886734

14c67b33-6fa9-4dbe-b6ba-d254005a0626
00:16:57.650 --> 00:17:01.700
yet the number of fishermen
has increased 4 to 6 times,  

NOTE Confidence: 0.88795667886734

b72934bd-ea79-46e2-8ae6-7c2c7cad4cb2
00:17:01.700 --> 00:17:04.900
and it's reported that there is 
11 times as much gear 

00:17:04.900 --> 00:17:07.200
in the water now as in 1950.

NOTE Confidence: 0.870058715343475

3d196592-444d-40a3-be7d-0166589ac935
00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:10.600
Two years ago, the state
declared a moratorium 

NOTE Confidence: 0.870058715343475

6786ee3c-b901-4abd-af22-311413a4407a
00:17:10.600 --> 00:17:13.749
on issuing new commercial 
fishing licenses,

NOTE Confidence: 0.870058715343475

37d1f923-99f5-4f4d-9204-6bc5e824489f
00:17:13.749 --> 00:17:16.340
and Washington's congressional 
delegation was instrumental 

NOTE Confidence: 0.870058715343475

4564cd68-fb6d-421c-93fe-6fa255205c1f
00:17:16.340 --> 00:17:19.635
in getting the federal government
to finance a buyback program,

00:17:19.635 --> 00:17:21.900
allocating 3 1/2 million dollars

NOTE Confidence: 0.870058715343475

74be12f3-2585-42ff-b41a-a347dbc09236
00:17:21.900 --> 00:17:24.900
to buy back boats and gear 
of commercial fishermen 

NOTE Confidence: 0.870058715343475

16a56549-b726-4a08-a6ec-5f0c7f447629
00:17:24.900 --> 00:17:27.900
who felt the decision made it
impossible to continue. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.870058715343475

3e9c9411-ecf3-4724-9522-025a4d8e031c
00:17:27.900 --> 00:17:29.700
(speaker #6)
Well the Boldt decision 
in last two years,

NOTE Confidence: 0.870058715343475

62f20293-0a5b-41a3-905e-3c6d55975be8
00:17:29.700 --> 00:17:32.061
I haven't made a dime. 
I've lost money on my boat.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885184228420258

03da7fd5-9b6e-4163-a663-5f7fd10cf0b3
00:17:32.760 --> 00:17:35.700
And there's no way I can 
keep on going because I have to

NOTE Confidence: 0.885184228420258

91b52a34-c935-460a-8042-3f105a4043f5
00:17:35.700 --> 00:17:39.760
sell my boat back to the buyback 
in order to get out of business.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885184228420258

ce80b731-68c6-4823-8b3b-2ddaaf70f209
00:17:39.760 --> 00:17:41.510
If I don't, I'm going to be broke.

NOTE Confidence: 0.864675283432007

46a230b5-9c6b-40d9-bc46-24f9c9b1e3d0
00:17:42.870 --> 00:17:46.500
(narrator)
The boats which the government buys 
are sold at auction.

NOTE Confidence: 0.864675283432007

35c82629-5397-4f5a-8391-7c358bfd5117
00:17:46.500 --> 00:17:50.938
The first auction was held in Tacoma 
with 67 boats up for sale.

NOTE Confidence: 0.864675283432007

e312e3d8-a923-422a-a5c1-d585e1f8850e
00:17:50.938 --> 00:17:53.600
A survey by the 
National Marine Fisheries Service

NOTE Confidence: 0.864675283432007

edd23fa3-26eb-441d-8b95-eadc68234e3a
00:17:53.600 --> 00:17:57.150
found that over 300 local fishermen
would like to sell.

NOTE Confidence: 0.864214360713959

22f5c590-352b-4b54-9d02-ea368ef954ba
00:17:59.990 --> 00:18:03.380
A stipulation of the buyback program 
is that boats may never again

NOTE Confidence: 0.864214360713959

c21013d8-0c14-4539-b5c3-6ed0e1e12bb9
00:18:03.380 --> 00:18:06.870
be used in Washington water 
for commercial fishing.

NOTE Confidence: 0.864214360713959

9bed6634-37d5-4edf-a5f0-0c3ac124f26d
00:18:06.870 --> 00:18:09.582
This brought in buyers from
Alaska to California.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8058100938797

0f309742-84fd-42c3-b547-9014d8f0fe54
00:18:11.050 --> 00:18:17.900
(Auctioneer)
[bid calling]

00:18:19.900 --> 00:18:23.500
(narrator)
Accurate figures on fishing losses 
are difficult to secure.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8058100938797

d3882eac-75ec-4e97-8830-1d4f5701d46e
00:18:23.500 --> 00:18:26.942
One study reported purse seiners' 
income down to less than half,

NOTE Confidence: 0.8058100938797

1d528ced-abef-48a4-962a-94efd47a1b95
00:18:26.942 --> 00:18:30.050
gillnetters' to below a sixth 
of what it had been.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8058100938797

c6684dcd-6154-4fb6-a7c8-249cfbffe048
00:18:30.050 --> 00:18:33.900
But such figures were influenced 
by inflation, a poor run,

NOTE Confidence: 0.8058100938797

472cbdb1-d567-40fc-a841-9b16294b1a78
00:18:33.900 --> 00:18:37.300
and a drastically reduced season, 
as well as by the Boldt decision.

NOTE Confidence: 0.8058100938797

700015b2-ca51-41c0-87c5-967ca6f8d30b
00:18:38.430 --> 00:18:40.768
Indians would like to buy the boats 
but they can't

NOTE Confidence: 0.8058100938797

239ae245-d99f-4825-9798-b7bb36ab38d1
00:18:40.768 --> 00:18:44.400
because of the restriction 
on commercial use in Washington.

NOTE Confidence: 0.759340584278107

bce8b7bb-0035-4ffc-aeb5-6c2f022e87fe
00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:48.040
(speaker #10)
Well I, I uh, I'm a troller 
in uh, southeastern Alaska, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.759340584278107

1920571a-2b45-4040-8c32-d57edb610417
00:18:48.040 --> 00:18:53.950
and uh bought it for uh trolling, 
and uh, one of these days if I retire, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.759340584278107

e81830df-dee8-4776-9b2c-9493316c78c6
00:18:53.950 --> 00:18:55.600
I just might live aboard it. 

00:18:55.944 --> 00:18:59.690
(speaker #11)
Well uh, I've been, 
I'm from Juno and uh, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.759340584278107

a0351d63-be0c-40b2-abbd-8cfe8bb8b16c
00:18:59.690 --> 00:19:02.800
I just bought the boat Norma Jean,
take it back up there and halibut fish.

NOTE Confidence: 0.759340584278107

2fdc7fa8-9428-4d30-a11c-c149395e4cc9
00:19:02.800 --> 00:19:04.800
They've got a little work to do on it, 
but it's not much. 

00:19:04.800 --> 00:19:05.972
It's a good price.

NOTE Confidence: 0.759340584278107

2b46db8f-0a17-4e69-911b-8b0373292518
00:19:05.972 --> 00:19:06.952
(speaker #12)
Just for pleasure.

00:19:06.952 --> 00:19:08.760
Probably take it down 
in Columbia River

00:19:08.760 --> 00:19:10.050
and fish for sturgeon.

NOTE Confidence: 0.759340584278107

b858b926-194b-4ffd-b40a-c6142e0f15e7
00:19:10.502 --> 00:19:13.200
(speaker #1)
Oh god, no, this buyback 
is a big farce.

NOTE Confidence: 0.759340584278107

a4943256-3ef8-42e9-b1f2-5ee968059506
00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:15.300
(interviewer)
In what way?

NOTE Confidence: 0.827863454818726

d190990a-df28-490d-9547-983016d0b217
00:19:15.300 --> 00:19:18.944
(speaker #1)
Well, they're buying boats
that were- weren't any good anyway.

NOTE Confidence: 0.827863454818726

45b1f35f-9bd4-4a11-9c4d-1c5323b34b16
00:19:18.944 --> 00:19:22.070
And the boats that were any good, 
now there's a couple boats

NOTE Confidence: 0.827863454818726

f62682dc-dbc8-472e-9a94-b6fa930de05e
00:19:22.070 --> 00:19:25.892
that I know of, [boat name], 
a guy sold him for $32,000 

NOTE Confidence: 0.827863454818726

637b3fe7-85ee-4a88-875f-4f60eafbe93d
00:19:25.892 --> 00:19:28.600
and turns around and buys him 
for $15,000, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.827863454818726

b95940ab-f0ae-4a80-ada0-5a46499e2470
00:19:28.600 --> 00:19:30.586
and then he's going to 
take it up Alaska fishing.

NOTE Confidence: 0.862373113632202

f64b1074-ce82-44af-85d6-dacc33d183ff
00:19:31.700 --> 00:19:33.519
(narrator)
And so opinion varies, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.862373113632202

223a50e6-ffa7-4baf-896a-8ec51ccfa785
00:19:33.519 --> 00:19:36.547
but what about the fisherman 
whose boats are not up for sale? 

NOTE Confidence: 0.862373113632202

5cb61756-b6b7-458a-8555-437851275948
00:19:36.547 --> 00:19:39.530
Are they more successful 
or just more stubborn? 

00:19:39.530 --> 00:19:41.500
Possibly they're waiting
further developments. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.862373113632202

f4beacc9-50fa-4ab0-9dd9-53af513ea837
00:19:41.500 --> 00:19:42.882
Doctor James Crutchfield, 

00:19:42.882 --> 00:19:45.200
University economist of Marine Studies, 
says:

NOTE Confidence: 0.862373113632202

aebd63c6-2924-41e0-8287-685e6195707c
00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:49.348
(James Crutchfield)
There can be no doubt that the
Boldt decision is going to have 

NOTE Confidence: 0.862373113632202

a8f3ab1b-1cdf-4616-8725-cd27ffcc235f
00:19:49.348 --> 00:19:54.840
a profound, serious impact on the
incomes of a good many fishermen

NOTE Confidence: 0.862373113632202

97013f37-aedc-4001-9b2b-7fe8a8bd3635
00:19:54.840 --> 00:19:57.730
in the state of Washington, 
both commercial fisherman 

NOTE Confidence: 0.862373113632202

5db5619a-3322-4e3d-a12b-1d88d7ef8209
00:19:57.730 --> 00:20:00.987
and those who depend on the 
sportfishing industry. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.873242437839508

3b9c3a17-7eae-41b3-9b8e-c63265f13fd2
00:20:00.987 --> 00:20:04.870
A number of studies were done 
prior to the Boldt decision 

NOTE Confidence: 0.873242437839508

dc5e0376-bf79-46ec-979a-ea216c85705a
00:20:04.870 --> 00:20:07.900
on earnings in the salmon fisheries.
It was pretty clear 

NOTE Confidence: 0.873242437839508

b9e1ee27-644c-473d-8271-392bcc0d4228
00:20:07.800 --> 00:20:11.900
that even when you include earnings 
from all sources,


e46c01ad-f29f-42db-bf90-3d7dd32c9167
00:20:07.800 --> 00:20:18.020
00:20:11.900 --> 00:20:15.010
nobody's getting very rich 
in salmon fishing. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.873242437839508

7fa772ef-fcde-48f9-a7ed-fb76fa89bf82
00:20:15.010 --> 00:20:19.560
Suddenly, these same people 
are faced with a catch 

NOTE Confidence: 0.873242437839508

1570883e-b0ae-4aa5-b5af-74fa3df9fcac
00:20:19.560 --> 00:20:22.980
that can be no more than 50% 
of what they had taken before, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.867524206638336

e3b10349-5d38-46af-887f-81e69b0c0550
00:20:22.980 --> 00:20:25.356
and the impact on many of them 

00:20:25.356 --> 00:20:28.400
is obviously going to be 
financially disastrous. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.867524206638336

6e66704b-13d7-40bd-b611-8ce70e8fb9fe
00:20:28.956 --> 00:20:32.537
(Bill Lowman)
I personally have been 
in this business for a lifetime, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.867524206638336

0be79332-f9ce-41b7-93bc-20c0dfdcfa67
00:20:32.537 --> 00:20:34.200
one way or another, 
either as a fisherman 

00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:36.950
or something to do
with the salmon canning. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.867524206638336

9af20472-af01-44b6-95c5-9b8d01a7d107
00:20:36.950 --> 00:20:41.970
My family, I am the 4th generation
in the, in my own family

NOTE Confidence: 0.867524206638336

36df0cba-9471-4e06-855a-32ebd76168d9
00:20:41.970 --> 00:20:45.222
who's been involved in this 
salmon industry, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.867524206638336

c4c287fc-69a7-420e-8a91-5e510fbcdb7a
00:20:45.222 --> 00:20:51.474
and to hear all of a sudden 
that the Indian people of this state 

NOTE Confidence: 0.867524206638336

424ad8d2-f3b4-4723-904b-d489b1be6bd0
00:20:51.474 --> 00:20:55.526
were entitled to 50% 
and even excess of 50% of the salmon 

NOTE Confidence: 0.867524206638336

80b36020-f5e2-4a24-89f3-615167f62b55
00:20:55.526 --> 00:20:56.552
was just unbelievable. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.892768561840057

b62ff92b-44c5-4d80-9a40-7aaed10e235b
00:20:56.552 --> 00:21:01.700
It was a traumatic thing for me,
because it was very obvious that

NOTE Confidence: 0.892768561840057

0d2c15f6-0ced-48d6-8273-8ffb0eebfe62
00:21:01.700 --> 00:21:04.964
if 50% of the available salmon
were going to go to one user group 

NOTE Confidence: 0.892768561840057

0cf43bf6-0496-438d-9f49-15c68a00e289
00:21:04.964 --> 00:21:08.970
which had not been participating 
that heavily in it before, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.892768561840057

3addfdd7-073b-4f01-9380-4b2706189569
00:21:08.970 --> 00:21:13.376
that this would have to
come out of someone else's share, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.892768561840057

08ff9dd3-aba6-441c-bca5-4b6722e7034f
00:21:13.376 --> 00:21:16.114
which of course meant me 
as a fisherman.

NOTE Confidence: 0.783545136451721

843354fa-af22-4050-8f23-a902164a8f25
00:21:17.820 --> 00:21:20.568
(narrator)
Bill Lowman, a gillnetter 
out of Anacortes, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.783545136451721

cdec1b71-965c-4390-bbae-bf6159165a96
00:21:20.568 --> 00:21:25.142
comes from a long line of fishermen 
and is typical of many.

NOTE Confidence: 0.896236777305603

5921a37e-378e-40e5-aff2-d02d64fa8741
00:21:25.142 --> 00:21:28.000
Perhaps because they're used to 
fighting the elements,

NOTE Confidence: 0.896236777305603

8874fc50-61c2-4f97-9797-c71064f677a3
00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:30.800
explains why the commercial fishermen 
were unwilling

NOTE Confidence: 0.896236777305603

f992014d-d3df-42ea-95cb-419191f3a2d3
00:21:30.800 --> 00:21:33.190
to take the Boldt decision 
without a fight.

NOTE Confidence: 0.897969365119934

a41eee99-8f92-4e95-8dbd-9b12089c1711
00:21:33.900 --> 00:21:35.500
When the decision was announced,

NOTE Confidence: 0.897969365119934

41bfcc8d-e467-4dbc-80ef-d9abdb5f05da
00:21:35.500 --> 00:21:38.500
it seemed to them that the
federal government had stepped in 

NOTE Confidence: 0.897969365119934

120e47e9-22b3-41d6-be39-e9873ee7a022
00:21:38.500 --> 00:21:42.246
and denied them their rights
as citizens to make a living.

NOTE Confidence: 0.847305774688721

947428c5-7efc-468e-acdd-6d00eaf4ba61
00:21:42.850 --> 00:21:45.617
Bill Lowman, like many of his
fishing acquaintances, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.847305774688721

4e4f6439-c7bc-46aa-9874-34c11208d3c5
00:21:45.617 --> 00:21:47.421
believes strongly that 
the federal government 

NOTE Confidence: 0.847305774688721

a9ab2a7c-ae69-458a-814e-c01ec6cf6b90
00:21:47.421 --> 00:21:50.210
is attempting to override 
states rights.

NOTE Confidence: 0.850628554821014

02f51bf0-81f2-4165-bae7-006d7fac0e68
00:21:50.980 --> 00:21:55.500
For this reason, he's spearheading 
a drive to impeach Judge Boldt.

NOTE Confidence: 0.863369047641754

50971037-c81b-4562-b2ed-698e1f9daeb6
00:21:57.480 --> 00:21:58.956
What about the Indians? 

NOTE Confidence: 0.863369047641754

62dab2d4-1ac1-46b4-a130-78edd7cb4d93
00:21:58.956 --> 00:22:03.500
Their catch is said to be far less 
than the 50% they're now entitled to.

NOTE Confidence: 0.782766759395599

0075f892-8c3b-4077-b89b-ce1a2d4525f7
00:22:03.500 --> 00:22:07.389
Indian fishermen Tom Gobin
finds little change as yet.

NOTE Confidence: 0.931201815605164

c05d4a51-3565-44d2-8207-e0a6871a81e5
00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:12.045
(Tom Gobin)
I haven't received any personal gain

NOTE Confidence: 0.873679041862488

a38f0d87-c68a-4a76-8361-2bdd6871833c
00:22:12.045 --> 00:22:16.096
as a result of the Boldt decision 
this far.

NOTE Confidence: 0.849875152111053

64be977c-0490-44b4-a667-92004d96cf95
00:22:17.550 --> 00:22:22.750
In fact uh, my fishery has taken a
several thousand dollar loss last year,

NOTE Confidence: 0.870354950428009

c195b5dd-8fa1-49c1-8752-0e6c1b1d543d
00:22:23.390 --> 00:22:28.922
because of uh, growing pains I guess, 
or difficulties. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.870354950428009

cc555a27-b72f-4789-8bb2-ca66053b3565
00:22:28.922 --> 00:22:30.906
In implementing the Boldt decision

NOTE Confidence: 0.797001540660858

a46ef4a3-635c-47d8-ab83-6ff78de6f675
00:22:30.906 --> 00:22:34.310
there was much harassment by

NOTE Confidence: 0.908308148384094

8a73b905-9fa6-406d-b907-c5c5b827d474
00:22:36.510 --> 00:22:38.546
the state of Washington,
in my opinion, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.908308148384094

934934f7-93aa-49e7-8afb-887c085a1a9f
00:22:38.546 --> 00:22:42.782
and uh, illegal fishing activity 
which was,

NOTE Confidence: 0.851906895637512

3fd49902-1b9a-4eb2-b574-2201c0c344f7
00:22:43.530 --> 00:22:44.990
going on unchecked in this area, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.851906895637512

c0d28c2b-321f-42f5-a52b-6b6c698124db
00:22:44.990 --> 00:22:48.720
and as far as the area where I fish,

NOTE Confidence: 0.910124838352203

cbb0a154-6046-44dc-8808-a5486d510957
00:22:50.270 --> 00:22:54.616
we lost a large percentage 
of the harvestable fish

NOTE Confidence: 0.836492538452148

bf67a477-7048-46ff-8df4-c70950e32651
00:22:54.616 --> 00:22:58.580
that we ordinarily would have 
been able to take.

NOTE Confidence: 0.862093687057495

556ba6a3-b1e0-4d41-bacf-ebbc6f35a3bd
00:22:58.580 --> 00:23:00.338
As a result uh,

NOTE Confidence: 0.839668095111847

6ee2dde5-7fc5-4e1e-b883-1b598acd47e1
00:23:01.370 --> 00:23:03.808
my gross take was way down.

NOTE Confidence: 0.814735949039459

646883c2-d408-4d21-9674-f04c9316a303
00:23:04.670 --> 00:23:09.026
(Cliff Keeline)
I'm Muckleshoot and we fish Duwamish, 
and uh, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.814735949039459

f8892cbd-508d-4035-ba2a-ea4e3fe34919
00:23:09.026 --> 00:23:12.782
there's- there's only so much river. 
It's- it's pretty much limited entry

NOTE Confidence: 0.814735949039459

fd545572-0aa1-416b-a132-7f27601af28e
00:23:12.782 --> 00:23:16.010
there by just how much money 
you can make, you know, in that area. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.814735949039459

392bb712-a658-4d1c-8e75-642be4d9ccf1
00:23:16.010 --> 00:23:18.994
But the Boldt decision 
just guaranteed again 

NOTE Confidence: 0.814735949039459

ce90c609-4df9-48c9-862f-5efa89b5d459
00:23:18.994 --> 00:23:23.550
our marine- our marine fishery, 
and that, that means that I can go out 

NOTE Confidence: 0.814735949039459

8fa92706-aa53-44f9-a3a1-79a08a5ffe6e
00:23:23.550 --> 00:23:27.998
and you know, be in competition. 
You know less- less competition 

NOTE Confidence: 0.857856452465057

d086768c-5506-4bf4-a9ad-102dd71482a2
00:23:27.998 --> 00:23:33.100
as far as a fishery's concerned, by-
well, there's more area to fish,

NOTE Confidence: 0.857856452465057

db37fe87-2123-4e9f-8221-d02fbdfa19be
00:23:33.100 --> 00:23:35.800
it just gives us more area, 
the Boldt decision has. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.858094811439514

985abe42-4e71-490b-88b4-7975b77809a2
00:23:35.800 --> 00:23:40.600
Its, that's how it has affected my tribe 
I feel, and uh, for the first time

NOTE Confidence: 0.858094811439514

49ce71c6-9fe5-4884-9bc0-1f8a9ed64b98
00:23:40.600 --> 00:23:43.840
I've been able to uh, 
up my standard of living, you know.

NOTE Confidence: 0.859159886837006

37a48ae3-0350-4d1c-aa01-1bfe5487cc6e
00:23:44.580 --> 00:23:46.940
(speaker #1)
Well I hope something's done
because uh, you can't go out here

NOTE Confidence: 0.859159886837006

7b0bee7c-3e44-4a4f-8619-6f4299f8b411
00:23:46.940 --> 00:23:49.955
fishing uh, one day a week 
or two days a week uh, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.859159886837006

0cf6aaa3-0625-427c-9f78-c47d085ffe1f
00:23:49.955 --> 00:23:53.760
with these fellows that got 
$35,000, $40,000 investment. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.859159886837006

12de3b64-1554-4da9-a81d-801cfc22c2f6
00:23:53.760 --> 00:23:56.975
Yeah you can't make uh 
any money to pay your, 

00:23:56.975 --> 00:23:58.600
you can't even make a living that way.

NOTE Confidence: 0.859159886837006

c75fb806-30f1-4913-bdb2-5546ea09bf48
00:23:58.975 --> 00:24:03.470
(narrator)
Considerable investment is at stake 
in the commercial fishing industry.

NOTE Confidence: 0.859159886837006

8f81b1c7-ca5e-48c0-bdab-9e53901c2d24
00:24:03.470 --> 00:24:06.995
By itself the industry in Washington 
is relatively small,

NOTE Confidence: 0.859159886837006

6cbcb7f0-5703-4b9f-8963-d26aec4815d6
00:24:06.995 --> 00:24:11.000
but add to it boat building, 
food processing, marinas,

NOTE Confidence: 0.859159886837006

b302e393-57e1-4bf9-ad8c-f49029a6fc9a
00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:14.410
and all the suppliers.
Some economists place fishing 

NOTE Confidence: 0.859159886837006

3f7dccec-20a3-4b79-a77c-6f4fc7dabccd
00:24:14.410 --> 00:24:17.605
as high as the 5th largest industry
in the state.

NOTE Confidence: 0.841132462024689

0010e55a-f4bb-4577-9e63-9490aec6b69b
00:24:18.300 --> 00:24:20.500
The investment for the 
individual fisherman 

NOTE Confidence: 0.841132462024689

8fb31680-087d-4615-82f8-3ea64f868c6c
00:24:20.500 --> 00:24:24.606
is substantial as well depending
on the type of fisherman he is.

NOTE Confidence: 0.841132462024689

08c17634-680d-4221-a9ab-8457aeb79aae
00:24:24.606 --> 00:24:28.286
Large purse seine boats represent 
tens of thousands of dollars.

NOTE Confidence: 0.841132462024689

d5738ad5-4127-4ee3-8233-894fe0f5a9fe
00:24:28.286 --> 00:24:31.578
They use big, expensive nets 
that circle the fish

NOTE Confidence: 0.841132462024689

6f683c6b-db25-486f-8363-2526672c5bf2
00:24:31.578 --> 00:24:34.946
and then are drawn together 
at the bottom like a purse.

NOTE Confidence: 0.841132462024689

abff1489-d7fd-49f3-9934-7d326b0b484e
00:24:34.946 --> 00:24:38.590
Add costs of fuel, insurance, 
maintenance, and crew.

NOTE Confidence: 0.815851032733917

f7239d86-ef79-43e6-9a15-7b01f21d4795
00:24:40.590 --> 00:24:43.450
Washington salmon fishing,
especially in Puget Sound, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.815851032733917

24aefb61-0204-4108-9b09-3000fa338e8a
00:24:43.450 --> 00:24:48.506
is done primarily by gillnetters
who suspend flat gill nets in the water.

NOTE Confidence: 0.815851032733917

6358fa93-b027-474d-bc32-b5fda53ee982
00:24:48.506 --> 00:24:51.912
Mesh allows the head of the fish 
to pass through,

NOTE Confidence: 0.815851032733917

100aca7a-7f29-49ac-9841-7dd140b1acf1
00:24:51.912 --> 00:24:54.050
but entangles it when 
it attempts to withdraw

NOTE Confidence: 0.75978946685791

a6804e92-2411-41cc-b8d0-9af579a64528
00:24:54.050 --> 00:24:57.512
There are six times 
as many gillnetters as purse seiners.

NOTE Confidence: 0.75978946685791

2cb23e9f-7315-45d5-b261-b0dbc028c629
00:24:57.512 --> 00:25:00.400
Then there are trollers, 
and reef netters,

NOTE Confidence: 0.75978946685791

17703173-380f-4b27-8dc0-c9256537f464
00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:02.776
and regulations influence 
their catches.

NOTE Confidence: 0.890329778194427

3e9fed32-6a9a-4f5d-b374-3e983c48cd75
00:25:03.900 --> 00:25:10.500
(Frank Scott)
I can't see where uh, there's any
regulations on the fishermen now.

NOTE Confidence: 0.890329778194427

4fc1525d-c45e-4247-b1e2-cbe745fe3ce7
00:25:10.500 --> 00:25:14.920
There is on some fishermen
but not others.

NOTE Confidence: 0.788224935531616

a07e5c57-6b12-4c55-9fb8-12a578133fc6
00:25:16.530 --> 00:25:21.845
The Indians uh, are having 
more fishing time

NOTE Confidence: 0.84065705537796

18f135ab-e848-40e4-8c5c-7caba266bfbf
00:25:21.845 --> 00:25:25.912
than the white fishermen,
and they- they don't need that.

NOTE Confidence: 0.84065705537796

933a87dc-8712-43bf-9dae-a858c2877bd0
00:25:25.912 --> 00:25:27.930
The Indian fishermen 
that were fishing,

NOTE Confidence: 0.84065705537796

4756fe99-f19f-4a5f-8b54-b0ea107f2720
00:25:27.930 --> 00:25:32.748
they, they competed with us alright. 
They got along. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.84065705537796

4a0d7ca2-16d7-407f-b058-c680449169d1
00:25:32.748 --> 00:25:36.690
(narrator)
Ron Charles disagrees that 
the Indians "get along." 

NOTE Confidence: 0.84065705537796

6d912302-3e8d-4629-9222-5bad6718a003
00:25:36.690 --> 00:25:39.946
Although a few do well, 
the Indians' catch in some areas 

NOTE Confidence: 0.84065705537796

82a1fc32-d0dd-4d37-8c31-f870b423f52b
00:25:39.946 --> 00:25:43.488
and for some species, 
is below the allotted share. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.84065705537796

52418387-d8ab-4b30-9520-94d479033d48
00:25:43.488 --> 00:25:48.516
(Ron Charles)
Regarding uh the percentage of fish 
that uh the Indians in uh,

NOTE Confidence: 0.88650119304657

8a1bb81a-6b33-477e-aabd-95c76f653997
00:25:49.340 --> 00:25:54.870
case area are getting now,
in 1975, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.88650119304657

2c1970d7-24f7-47d1-b8b4-6585af1ff720
00:25:54.870 --> 00:25:57.482
the Indians uh took about uh 

NOTE Confidence: 0.881016731262207

59b442d6-c36a-4e3c-93c6-a411ea339fe8
00:25:57.482 --> 00:26:02.490
12% of the total harvestable catch
in the case area, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.881016731262207

c4f637b7-8a68-47d3-a280-8aa5dade1341
00:26:02.490 --> 00:26:07.610
and in the year previous, 1974, 
it was about 11%.

NOTE Confidence: 0.860642850399017

817c0bcf-a3ef-471a-b56b-c370d00988ac
00:26:08.620 --> 00:26:12.520
Uh, those are the two years 
of the Boldt decision. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.860642850399017

fe74c7d5-a101-43d4-87ad-e44f9a70b227
00:26:12.520 --> 00:26:16.820
Prior to the Boldt decision, 
the Indians harvested

NOTE Confidence: 0.860642850399017

a614777a-64e7-4d44-a047-a97340e1db5b
00:26:16.820 --> 00:26:20.520
approximately 3% to 5% 
of the total harvestable catch.

NOTE Confidence: 0.868526220321655

d716b87e-8336-4dff-8e56-5e038b81a7b5
00:26:21.640 --> 00:26:28.608
Uh, and uh this really, I think uh, 
is not something that is well known,

NOTE Confidence: 0.868526220321655

786d6432-4245-45a2-a1a9-789fdca27bc3
00:26:28.608 --> 00:26:34.512
and uh, it's a mistake in uh,
opinion by many that uh 

NOTE Confidence: 0.868526220321655

11ad2335-76f1-470a-819a-b4b49cbea161
00:26:34.512 --> 00:26:37.104
we are harvesting half of the fish.

NOTE Confidence: 0.836620926856995

2f010cd0-d334-4759-8fd9-198b97ce70df
00:26:37.950 --> 00:26:42.109
(narrator)
It has been said that the Indians 
could not agree on fishing regulations.

NOTE Confidence: 0.836620926856995

8da52aaf-95e7-48e7-9451-7c97e238af4e
00:26:42.109 --> 00:26:44.950
Helen Keeline is a coordinator 
at Tulalip for the

NOTE Confidence: 0.836620926856995

6f3af3ea-6b53-45a9-a0f0-be2b970ad484
00:26:44.950 --> 00:26:47.513
Northwest Indian Fisheries Commission.

NOTE Confidence: 0.836620926856995

933577fc-b731-47dc-8bc7-f85de41038df
00:26:47.513 --> 00:26:51.534
She comments on changes among Indians 
and their tribal organizations.

NOTE Confidence: 0.920410573482513

537edcc9-a50b-411b-a5f2-95702883918a
00:26:52.980 --> 00:26:55.367
(Helen Keeline)
I can say that a year ago,

NOTE Confidence: 0.84548282623291

bc00df6e-9724-45ac-94b1-68a95a30c58f
00:26:56.340 --> 00:27:01.500
the tribes that I am responsible to,
the Point Elliot tribes, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.863198637962341

2e2b6956-1089-4df9-9240-9784febdedf6
00:27:01.500 --> 00:27:04.250
there are nine recognized 
and three unrecognized, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.863198637962341

0211eeb8-6a13-484c-a0e8-b8afd9974d47
00:27:04.250 --> 00:27:07.500
couldn't sit down at the same table.

NOTE Confidence: 0.863198637962341

6a6ab458-9545-4b28-b1ef-67f98314a6fd
00:27:07.500 --> 00:27:12.510
But today, we are negotiating 
and we have come to agreements.

NOTE Confidence: 0.863198637962341

7e484738-bf2c-4132-bcf0-eb07b62659ea
00:27:12.510 --> 00:27:14.926
We have what we call 
a joint tribal agreement, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.863198637962341

ab3b8901-5585-48c8-9c8f-e31ec723c71b
00:27:14.926 --> 00:27:20.406
and we have in common regulations,
whereas there's one set of regulations

NOTE Confidence: 0.863198637962341

03a2893a-aa45-49f6-a793-a0a017f0c088
00:27:20.406 --> 00:27:22.100
for all of the tribes. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.863198637962341

abc6d3b7-c64d-4756-9a5b-d7fe6d306e03
00:27:22.100 --> 00:27:27.400
We now have fisheries management 
programs for every tribe, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.863198637962341

cf99955b-a41b-4d47-88ba-6e2a26593802
00:27:27.400 --> 00:27:32.750
and we've hired, a majority of the 
tribes have hired tribal biologists.

NOTE Confidence: 0.820725798606873

2ec412f6-e82d-4afc-949f-cf18a21d952a
00:27:32.750 --> 00:27:37.400
They have fisheries technicians. 
Uh, every tribe has um,

NOTE Confidence: 0.820725798606873

637900c4-11a6-42bd-bb3c-6c89bfa7897e
00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:40.984
a law enforcement program, 
and they have sufficient

NOTE Confidence: 0.820725798606873

cfa49e7c-d292-44fb-b94c-11119dc8514f
00:27:40.984 --> 00:27:45.968
numbers of enforcement people 
to take care of their needs 

NOTE Confidence: 0.820725798606873

bc187589-0883-48b1-b52c-605376b2fcab
00:27:45.968 --> 00:27:48.288
on rivers and in marine areas.

NOTE Confidence: 0.853903770446777

f890670b-49f2-4871-a714-7ca2c81f96d8
00:27:49.220 --> 00:27:52.050
(narrator)
The different Indian tribes
along the Washington coast, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.853903770446777

e30d31eb-d0ed-425e-81ed-011624cd2468
00:27:52.050 --> 00:27:55.660
the Strait of Juan de Fuca, and around 
the perimeter of Puget Sound,

NOTE Confidence: 0.853903770446777

ef77559e-72bb-484f-9987-c77c7e233d5e
00:27:55.660 --> 00:28:00.200
recognized a great need to
coordinate their various activities.

NOTE Confidence: 0.853903770446777

ef1a2571-2b9f-4305-b6cb-369680ba471f
00:28:00.200 --> 00:28:02.972
They created the 
Northwest Indian Fisheries Commission,

NOTE Confidence: 0.853903770446777

7ae6284f-d2ac-4bd7-ae53-01c33f6c82e8
00:28:02.972 --> 00:28:07.200
whose 5 commissioners represent 
the 19 tribes in the treaty areas.

NOTE Confidence: 0.79842746257782

08460537-a33a-46bd-a599-6816dda2643b
00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:11.961
William Smith, a Skokomish Indian, 
heads the professional staff

NOTE Confidence: 0.79842746257782

b746363c-61ad-47c1-b175-8c6c9d01cb83
00:28:11.961 --> 00:28:15.178
and is executive director. 
Guy McMinds,

NOTE Confidence: 0.79842746257782

7c4d1860-110f-46c9-8189-ec3c0955fecd
00:28:15.178 --> 00:28:18.760
the Quinault Territory Commissioner, 
is a professional biologist

NOTE Confidence: 0.79842746257782

6b0ba726-e2c9-466b-b17b-5a478b3242a8
00:28:18.760 --> 00:28:21.373
and director of the 
Quinault Resource Development Program.

NOTE Confidence: 0.835197687149048

53b73ce3-9a92-47ac-8f62-5aedd4ca79cd
00:28:21.373 --> 00:28:25.077
Charles Peterson is the 
Makah treaty area commissioner

NOTE Confidence: 0.835197687149048

9e99f77f-8210-4d9a-9737-0a1a5a633ad3
00:28:25.077 --> 00:28:27.394
and vice chairman of the Commission.

NOTE Confidence: 0.812818884849548

c5e19ac4-5db0-4375-b672-3e1c7035aa90
00:28:28.570 --> 00:28:31.580
Ron Charles, 
Point No Point area commissioner, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.812818884849548

597aeabb-1866-43ae-ace5-e51d26906acb
00:28:31.580 --> 00:28:34.989
is also fisheries manager 
for the Port Gamble tribe. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.812818884849548

7763b0cd-1b80-4610-9192-c720576c3c42
00:28:34.989 --> 00:28:37.750
Calvin Peters, 
Medicine Creek commissioner, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.812818884849548

372e1ef1-8a2b-4f41-8a0f-b0214ad4de51
00:28:37.750 --> 00:28:39.805
is a chairman of the Squaxin Council, 

00:28:39.805 --> 00:28:42.500
and president of 
Northwest Affiliated Tribes. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.812818884849548

e84b3fd6-89a3-4873-b680-a2399bdfb420
00:28:42.905 --> 00:28:45.760
Commission Chairman Forrest Kinley,
is a Lummi representing

NOTE Confidence: 0.812818884849548

c73e9398-c2f8-40da-814c-c3aea20ee19a
00:28:45.760 --> 00:28:48.524
the Point Elliott treaty area 
with the most tribes. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.812818884849548

5898c521-ef8b-4670-a152-1ac48df236ec
00:28:48.524 --> 00:28:51.132
He is a lifetime fisherman 
and a tribal administrator. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.812818884849548

88a7cc27-1a64-48f9-bb71-092787e97368
00:28:51.132 --> 00:28:53.645
(Forrest Kinley)
I think the impact 
of the Boldt decision is uh,

NOTE Confidence: 0.891492128372192

1ee9b869-13f5-4ac9-a5d3-4769cfa3d176
00:28:53.645 --> 00:29:01.009
give uh, Indian people a new incentive. 
And uh, has uh, given an opportunity,

NOTE Confidence: 0.87126362323761

34825cb8-7647-4ab8-b9d0-55ad61e821cc
00:29:01.520 --> 00:29:05.213
when it's fully implemented,
to increase the economic value,

NOTE Confidence: 0.87126362323761

127aa72f-798f-4124-b242-212ccaca81b5
00:29:05.213 --> 00:29:07.683
economic gains, for Indian people, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.87126362323761

a73d72ba-8691-4ea3-ad3e-765027b894a9
00:29:07.683 --> 00:29:10.807
and it'll raise their 
standard of living. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.87126362323761

d0b37faf-1878-410a-913c-b0a18e2e58b8
00:29:10.807 --> 00:29:13.931
And some of the problems that it has 
created for Indian country 

NOTE Confidence: 0.87126362323761

a3de7a7e-4374-4bc7-a6fc-b30813fbb766
00:29:13.931 --> 00:29:19.950
is that we have the same problems that 
the state of Washington had in the past. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.87126362323761

39d9ed72-b9ca-43a0-9cb1-5a659987a201
00:29:19.950 --> 00:29:24.579
And that is we've got to look at the
division of fish between Indians,

NOTE Confidence: 0.87126362323761

163e88c4-15bc-44c2-8d71-050e2d6b9bfd
00:29:24.579 --> 00:29:25.941
come up with common regulations

NOTE Confidence: 0.872984170913696

a22fccd2-c3b2-4e68-8d2b-f26edda79974
00:29:25.941 --> 00:29:30.420
to combat the attitude 
of the state of Washington, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.872984170913696

fd3c98c0-8bb6-46ef-b891-d69d6ab2edcf
00:29:30.420 --> 00:29:32.980
saying that we're not capable 
of regulating.

00:29:32.980 --> 00:29:36.880
(Guy McMinds)
The state agencies,
both game and fisheries, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.872984170913696

ae09f789-b8b7-4a47-ba82-d47d7762cc9a
00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:43.500
will not recognize the Indian tribes, 
and I emphasize tribes as being 

NOTE Confidence: 0.872984170913696

157dc5db-f1c9-4d4a-b3e5-eb1cf0005430
00:29:43.500 --> 00:29:49.470
co-managers in their particular
usual and accustomed fishing areas.

NOTE Confidence: 0.872984170913696

845a5f3a-b138-4c08-b5cd-f51baf2028aa
00:29:49.470 --> 00:29:55.080
The judge recognizes the tribes 
as being co-managers, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.872984170913696

c4e06976-8cbb-4aaa-938f-a7e847543f7b
00:29:55.080 --> 00:30:00.810
and he in fact has set up a vehicle 
for recognizing Indian people

NOTE Confidence: 0.872984170913696

b43f5096-2220-47e8-ae13-727189a4222f
00:30:00.810 --> 00:30:03.240
as being co-managers.

NOTE Confidence: 0.863813579082489

2675dfe0-ebf9-4be3-a93d-4fd46da107fd
00:30:03.270 --> 00:30:05.900
(narrator)
Implementation is complicated.

00:30:05.900 --> 00:30:07.900
Judge Boldt established 
an Advisory Board

NOTE Confidence: 0.863813579082489

9070749a-adae-4e0a-886d-22ced1f0c5ff
00:30:07.900 --> 00:30:09.980
to help resolve issues out of court 

NOTE Confidence: 0.863813579082489

6feae0cd-2526-4197-8993-6797bb724226
00:30:09.980 --> 00:30:14.500
and to provide reliable input 
to the court on unresolved issues.

NOTE Confidence: 0.863813579082489

2003abd5-c7fe-46e8-a85d-fbe5aff522db
00:30:14.500 --> 00:30:18.550
State fisheries questions that it has 
the authority to allocate the fish.

NOTE Confidence: 0.863813579082489

53ea2025-2b92-4347-a090-1f18950c0042
00:30:18.550 --> 00:30:21.550
The commercial fishermen feels 
he cannot let his livelihood

NOTE Confidence: 0.863813579082489

88553702-fb52-487c-b618-392ef3e22d56
00:30:21.550 --> 00:30:23.450
be cut in half without a fight. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.863813579082489

52b25b9c-6503-4297-986b-b1ea44bec310
00:30:23.450 --> 00:30:26.650
The Indian does not fool himself 
that all is solved. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.863813579082489

ffb0933e-1995-47ad-a4f4-973f5dcd7ce4
00:30:26.650 --> 00:30:30.230
(Stan Kaufman)
We're all very concerned about 
the future of salmon fishing 

NOTE Confidence: 0.863813579082489

1382d473-e973-4822-8c45-4e606c7b8b5c
00:30:30.273 --> 00:30:32.400
and steelhead fishing. 
If it's allowed to go on

NOTE Confidence: 0.817280054092407

a1334be4-282c-442d-91c0-86cbabb1ef8b
00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:36.610
in this present status, it's gotta be
renegotiated in such a manner. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.817280054092407

05c6a86a-8fe4-4dca-9e43-f570cd1d2926
00:30:36.610 --> 00:30:39.800
I don't feel though that we're
going to be able to buy the Indian out

NOTE Confidence: 0.817280054092407

cbb5d44b-3ce7-41c6-bc8f-e1f090c0f501
00:30:39.800 --> 00:30:42.550
because I think the Indian uh, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.817280054092407

28d23142-a613-406f-be8f-3781ea00ab87
00:30:42.550 --> 00:30:45.066
has had a pretty tough role 
for many years.

NOTE Confidence: 0.850504398345947

502ef82d-c967-4bed-98f8-f98730230939
00:30:46.080 --> 00:30:50.300
(Tom Gobin)
I think the Boldt decision is
gonna benefit all of the fishermen,

NOTE Confidence: 0.850504398345947

37298c54-34b8-4bae-b2cd-36b13c718c00
00:30:50.300 --> 00:30:52.218
including the white fisherman, 
in the end. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.850504398345947

027601b4-5d73-442e-b357-6508990bc733
00:30:52.218 --> 00:30:55.500
(Ralph Johnson)
The main point is that both 
the Indians and the non Indians 

NOTE Confidence: 0.850504398345947

edab4c28-d17c-42d9-b421-a998ad207b87
00:30:55.500 --> 00:30:56.570
want more fish. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.850504398345947

95bbb82a-82ca-471d-8d93-fd1087315a64
00:30:56.570 --> 00:31:00.030
That is a total amount of fish 
so that everybody is happier by it.

NOTE Confidence: 0.856605410575867

29787473-0337-439a-8e98-177972fa34a7
00:31:01.020 --> 00:31:06.900
(Frank Scott)
There's just enough uh,
fish to go around if uh,

NOTE Confidence: 0.797458350658417

5890665a-2860-460b-a487-834eea75982c
00:31:06.900 --> 00:31:10.600
everyone is satisfied 
and fish is right.

NOTE Confidence: 0.846054017543793

01bcdd80-b212-450d-ba66-496582cd7b4f
00:31:11.800 --> 00:31:16.560
(Esther Sulich)
Hopefully we're learning. 
I mean, you've got to have faith in,

NOTE Confidence: 0.846054017543793

b1f6ff9e-7af2-444b-a0e3-a6733537a1c3
00:31:16.560 --> 00:31:21.900
in, if not your government, 
you've gotta have faith in God.

NOTE Confidence: 0.846054017543793

66876715-0294-4d1d-ad65-2f8502b95b6c
00:31:21.900 --> 00:31:26.300
(Cliff Keeline)
I like to think that uh, 
some of the people that are fishing

NOTE Confidence: 0.846054017543793

d392fe08-c4b4-4ce2-8a9e-42393fd31cf4
00:31:26.300 --> 00:31:28.650
know that this is 
the law of the land now 

NOTE Confidence: 0.846054017543793

c2cc9143-b87d-4c31-a921-c05247cc97aa
00:31:28.650 --> 00:31:30.900
and are gonna obey it. 

00:31:30.900 --> 00:31:33.800
(Ralph Sulich)
If the Boldt decision is going to 
put me out of business,

NOTE Confidence: 0.846054017543793

eaa2023b-c8cd-40b0-b366-a17c39dccd56
00:31:33.800 --> 00:31:36.900
I mean, if this is the intent of it, 
or if I owe something

NOTE Confidence: 0.846054017543793

2cc2dff8-646f-460b-8cb7-8514af17f400
00:31:36.900 --> 00:31:39.776
or if the United States of America 
owes something to the Indians,

NOTE Confidence: 0.846054017543793

8d97cc7c-b0f4-4a91-88a8-4134df74e0aa
00:31:39.776 --> 00:31:43.350
it's 200 million people that owe it, 
not just me, Ralph Sulich, one guy.

NOTE Confidence: 0.84308534860611

9332b6d7-b319-4345-b2f1-dad3e359f4ef
00:31:43.350 --> 00:31:45.960
You know, I mean, there's no way. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.84308534860611

48a1f3b2-5310-4752-bb4a-533a5207b89d
00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:48.970
I mean, if something has been done
and they're owed this, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.84308534860611

582035aa-60f9-4097-b304-6792fd17b7da
00:31:48.970 --> 00:31:50.770
I mean if they take it out of my hide, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.84308534860611

ead82138-5f7c-472e-b63c-60c7a795dd2a
00:31:50.770 --> 00:31:53.700
it won't be enough, you know.
And that I'll guarantee 'em.

00:31:53.700 --> 00:31:57.880
[rhythmic instrumental music]

NOTE Confidence: 0.860154986381531

a8fdbfc6-aed0-4421-b584-65388103fc81
00:31:57.880 --> 00:31:59.182
(narrator)
The conflicts continue. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.860154986381531

d1d7532a-370c-4c80-9710-a770b9cf1c28
00:31:59.182 --> 00:32:02.500
The Supreme Court has refused to
review the decision, 

00:32:02.500 --> 00:32:05.400
which in effect makes 
the Boldt decision law.

NOTE Confidence: 0.860154986381531

fcc81463-f6ee-42f9-9b18-4c42b4eb63c4
00:32:05.400 --> 00:32:06.984
Further decisions are being written

NOTE Confidence: 0.860154986381531

9c436f21-99fa-4877-af95-0fccc8357294
00:32:06.984 --> 00:32:09.716
under the continuing 
jurisdiction of Judge Boldt.

NOTE Confidence: 0.87614518404007

b1bcf732-b956-48e5-bf8d-5e5665b79f43
00:32:11.490 --> 00:32:14.800
(Al Swift)
The one thing you can say 
about the Boldt decision 

NOTE Confidence: 0.87614518404007

2d97935f-1889-4443-839a-5faab7dc196c
00:32:14.800 --> 00:32:18.850
without fear of contradiction 
is that it has had considerable impact. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.87614518404007

907fd7e5-b8c6-4996-9084-22eeb4426268
00:32:18.850 --> 00:32:21.930
As we have just seen it has 
had impact on treaty Indians, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.87614518404007

dbdf4d91-3483-4266-8ed9-0cfc686ce52d
00:32:21.930 --> 00:32:24.540
and on non treaty fishermen, 
on commercial fishermen, 

00:32:24.540 --> 00:32:25.550
and on sportsmen. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.87614518404007

b4a02b4d-4f4b-4739-a853-0135b8f3a710
00:32:25.650 --> 00:32:27.000
Now, what we would like to do  

NOTE Confidence: 0.87614518404007

7180a042-e765-4f98-87f9-087dde34bcbd
00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:30.910
is take a look at the ramifications
of the Boldt decision 

NOTE Confidence: 0.87614518404007

2b69a0ef-d053-4476-a611-f296bbb26dc1
00:32:30.910 --> 00:32:34.450
on the management of 
Northwest fisheries resource.

NOTE Confidence: 0.87614518404007

fe63680c-4ddf-455c-b26f-5f12ed2f37f5
00:32:34.450 --> 00:32:37.970
Now to begin with I should explain 
that one of the panel members 

NOTE Confidence: 0.87614518404007

b10e79e1-8678-44b1-b91e-974f821e5fb3
00:32:37.970 --> 00:32:41.570
suggested that because this is going 
to be a nuts and bolts discussion,

NOTE Confidence: 0.843976497650146

809cacec-3498-494f-b0f2-d84012dfdcb6
00:32:41.570 --> 00:32:44.531
that we should divest ourselves
of our jackets and loosen our ties

NOTE Confidence: 0.843976497650146

d3ffae03-62df-46ed-8994-531218408d7c
00:32:44.531 --> 00:32:47.542
and roll up our sleeves,
and that's about what we're going to do.

NOTE Confidence: 0.843976497650146

aade3ada-c33b-4afd-879f-988928159a9a
00:32:47.542 --> 00:32:50.000
You have met already three members 
of the panel.

NOTE Confidence: 0.843976497650146

68818772-a37b-4840-a8a8-d574fa127d30
00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:52.966
I would like to introduce you 
to the 4th one first, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.843976497650146

c9a8d261-f78d-4d9a-b7a8-332dc8c4d280
00:32:52.966 --> 00:32:54.574
Doctor Richard Whitney, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.843976497650146

6147d1fa-16cf-4be0-8d30-125ba02400a4
00:32:54.574 --> 00:32:56.984
who is Fisheries professor
at the University of Washington. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.843976497650146

07384148-396b-408a-a33b-293936077c7a
00:32:56.984 --> 00:32:59.985
He is a technical advisor 
to Judge Boldt. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.885088384151459

a990e388-f121-438f-a3eb-9e5682d0cc91
00:32:59.985 --> 00:33:03.160
Doctor Whitney, what is a
technical advisor to a federal judge? 

00:33:03.950 --> 00:33:07.550
(Richard R. Whitney)
Well, technical advisor is a
new concept actually, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.885088384151459

a95c7d6c-e6c3-4180-b1c2-60e105fcc3b3
00:33:07.550 --> 00:33:09.500
and I'd have to say that 
in the beginning 

NOTE Confidence: 0.885088384151459

44dda2e5-b2ec-4444-a9ea-d2a8cb0786df
00:33:09.500 --> 00:33:12.986
I didn't know myself what a 
technical advisor would be doing. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.885088384151459

2aeed815-0402-472f-b811-03c6ca8c0488
00:33:12.986 --> 00:33:15.906
If I had known I probably 
wouldn't have agreed to serve. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.885088384151459

d8c28b68-9085-4be9-be19-8f90dc707357
00:33:15.906 --> 00:33:19.992
But I find myself questioning 
witnesses in court

NOTE Confidence: 0.885088384151459

e12cbfd5-480a-4a03-818b-53a274f5f1b6
00:33:19.992 --> 00:33:23.600
or suggesting lines of questioning 
to the attorneys. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.885088384151459

93727317-105b-4ba8-925d-ea403533074c
00:33:23.600 --> 00:33:28.500
I find myself making recommendations 
to the court after the facts are in, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.885088384151459

428502ea-9159-49a7-b499-640b210e0f70
00:33:28.500 --> 00:33:32.500
and I find myself working with 
the parties outside of court to uh,

NOTE Confidence: 0.885088384151459

dd81f4cc-33a7-46f0-a1c5-c46ea14f3948
00:33:32.900 --> 00:33:36.486
reach agreements on matters 
before they have to go to court. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.8309166431427

6c8eae98-ce94-427b-98b2-cb082da1774f
00:33:36.486 --> 00:33:39.900
(Al Swift)
You're not the only advisor, in fact, 
there is a committee is there not? 

NOTE Confidence: 0.8309166431427

18f9824e-8dfa-4f0b-8b07-c8abd7ee3576
00:33:39.900 --> 00:33:42.679
(Richard R. Whitney)
The court has appointed 
a Fisheries Advisory Board 

NOTE Confidence: 0.8309166431427

17a9d4fb-3f41-4673-a60c-f32be8996799
00:33:42.679 --> 00:33:44.536
that has a somewhat 
different function, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.8309166431427

fa6f438b-3947-459a-bb95-17fb77fc087c
00:33:44.536 --> 00:33:48.500
that's to formalize a method
for arriving at agreements. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.8309166431427

70d262cc-9593-426b-ab1a-81e4cd6f51d3
00:33:48.500 --> 00:33:50.510
That consists of the director 
of Department of Fisheries 

NOTE Confidence: 0.8309166431427

984af52e-901a-41ae-a055-d28d9fb76c61
00:33:50.510 --> 00:33:51.711
when it concerns salmon,

00:33:51.711 --> 00:33:53.850
or Department of Game 
when it's steelhead, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.8309166431427

2b064b6c-a948-40f3-8c45-e13c39f7c0fe
00:33:53.850 --> 00:33:55.855
and an appropriate representative

NOTE Confidence: 0.8309166431427

0e585dd8-f7c0-45fb-b143-18d32c4e83ca
00:33:55.855 --> 00:33:58.050
from the
Northwest Indian Fisheries Commission. 

00:33:58.050 --> 00:34:00.300
Mr. McMinds frequently serves. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.8309166431427

e03a08b7-681d-4f44-956a-1aa4afce3927
00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:04.814
(Al Swift)
Donald Moos is director of the 
State Department of Fisheries.

NOTE Confidence: 0.84502387046814

11612b38-c696-4ee4-b620-fb19617e66fc
00:34:05.690 --> 00:34:09.850
You said once that the Boldt decision
stole all of your time. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.84502387046814

bb17f9bb-a939-416e-a9ea-fd069a9ab3dd
00:34:09.850 --> 00:34:10.870
What did you mean by that? 

00:34:10.870 --> 00:34:12.950
(Donald W. Moos)
Yeah it doesn't steal all the time,
but uh, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.84502387046814

9d6c9ef4-cebd-47f9-b0e4-6c4a79a7e920
00:34:12.950 --> 00:34:18.100
it occupies a great proportion of uh, 
my daily work. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.84502387046814

e1d425fb-c8cc-4fe2-8964-00219db2e3dd
00:34:18.100 --> 00:34:21.700
I would suspect uh, easy to say 80%. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.894634425640106

3c654de8-c01e-462f-b06c-f72ba6d1dbbd
00:34:22.100 --> 00:34:26.910
And that comes about because I am
the chief administrative officer

NOTE Confidence: 0.894634425640106

bcf51f65-2a75-4d09-a0cf-635f45d13865
00:34:26.910 --> 00:34:29.930
for the state and the area of Fisheries, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.894634425640106

1d6bc728-5cd1-4759-ac78-e487875e8069
00:34:29.930 --> 00:34:34.640
and the Boldt decision uh, 
is actually implemented 

00:34:34.640 --> 00:34:37.050
to a great extent out of our office.

NOTE Confidence: 0.882561445236206

222831ed-e036-42e6-bd67-c904a4aa96e9
00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:43.250
The state law gives me the uh,

NOTE Confidence: 0.860951781272888

fce16590-89dd-43d5-afdb-c0c6982af4a7
00:34:43.250 --> 00:34:47.220
authority to uh, 
manage the fisheries 

NOTE Confidence: 0.860951781272888

b118c68c-25cf-4d1b-a9a5-9d76f9eeb087
00:34:47.220 --> 00:34:49.920
and to preserve and protect 
and perpetuate the runs

00:34:49.920 --> 00:34:52.500
so that they are not destroyed,

NOTE Confidence: 0.860951781272888

8acf21cf-bc47-4391-93f6-488c5677b9d4
00:34:52.500 --> 00:34:57.020
and within that authority, 
I have to make the day-to-day decisions.

00:34:57.020 --> 00:34:58.600
(Al Swift)
You're the man on the hot seat. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.860951781272888

f40642a4-fd84-42f1-8e09-4d79af6dd1c5
00:34:58.600 --> 00:35:01.920
(Donald W. Moos)
Uh yes, I am in that particular spot. 

00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:04.950
And of course the decisions 
that I make uh, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.860951781272888

827e7944-57d2-4269-af49-307b93819df3
00:35:04.950 --> 00:35:09.620
by their own nature are controversial. 
They affect peoples lives or income,

NOTE Confidence: 0.860951781272888

287388d4-e237-4b8c-aa00-6cf8718557b9
00:35:10.580 --> 00:35:13.520
and uh, we have to be 
exceptionally careful

NOTE Confidence: 0.860951781272888

d8dcaaf3-726b-4c9b-b789-a359c331be52
00:35:13.520 --> 00:35:17.020
in making those decisions, 
that the credibility exists.

NOTE Confidence: 0.850730538368225

27ffd4f1-75d5-4112-995d-d0d690223ac0
00:35:17.030 --> 00:35:19.940
We might say that uh, 
I think it does exist. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.850730538368225

b4f75b9e-73eb-49c0-85f0-6caae8177381
00:35:19.940 --> 00:35:25.540
We've had maybe as many as 50 closures 
for conservation on tribes, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.850730538368225

17960b17-7aec-4568-9da6-27f38841a5a2
00:35:25.540 --> 00:35:29.110
and I would suspect in most of 
these cases they were challenged 

NOTE Confidence: 0.850730538368225

a3873140-e6b5-464b-a691-0be488863625
00:35:29.110 --> 00:35:33.640
in one way or the other before
Doctor Whitney or before Judge Boldt,

NOTE Confidence: 0.850730538368225

b280e440-bb1d-4974-8a65-4a83b846d734
00:35:33.640 --> 00:35:38.520
and uh, I believe that 
in every closure uh, 

00:35:38.520 --> 00:35:40.620
we were able to uh,

NOTE Confidence: 0.850730538368225

008de0aa-634b-4e10-91d8-051fc8e6d405
00:35:40.620 --> 00:35:44.420
show that our particular figures
in the resource were correct.

NOTE Confidence: 0.850730538368225

419a86a9-f981-486a-b0d3-926267bffcb3
00:35:44.420 --> 00:35:46.950
(Al Swift)
We'll talk a bit more about how
you're kind of the man between 

NOTE Confidence: 0.737427294254303

96d7f967-f641-412a-9412-83d5f62b7578
00:35:46.950 --> 00:35:48.660
a rock and a hard place. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.737427294254303

7397de04-c673-443a-aa69-3f4615f5b962
00:35:48.660 --> 00:35:52.940
Guy McMinds is a Quinault Treaty Area
Commissioner 

00:35:52.940 --> 00:35:55.140
to the Northwest Fisheries Commission.

NOTE Confidence: 0.853623867034912

82d681df-a622-4136-9095-2626e26b7f4a
00:35:55.980 --> 00:35:57.938
How many treaty fishermen are there, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.853623867034912

46a8c4af-e583-4eaf-ab93-3e0d2756ebab
00:35:57.938 --> 00:36:01.580
and how do you bring all of 
those tribes together 

NOTE Confidence: 0.853623867034912

077b6168-ff77-4207-b0b2-f0dcbf8c9320
00:36:01.580 --> 00:36:03.782
to come up with a unified position?

NOTE Confidence: 0.858506739139557

8d8db8bf-868d-4aee-87b3-0c7ec361ed2a
00:36:04.910 --> 00:36:08.500
(Guy McMinds)
There are over 1000 treaty fishermen.

NOTE Confidence: 0.904721021652222

91f33388-e0c4-45e7-9c3a-f7c919349259
00:36:08.500 --> 00:36:12.928
And the thing that brings us together 
is crisis,

NOTE Confidence: 0.893882215023041

1d2b7fa7-65c0-4ebe-9cf6-00518a2f666f
00:36:13.500 --> 00:36:16.200
and the common purpose 
of getting more fish. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.893882215023041

70d9693c-5a8d-46cf-accd-70eadc33134e
00:36:16.200 --> 00:36:17.500
It's that simple. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.893882215023041

e28fba30-fec5-4ac4-88f0-4ce90f994cf1
00:36:17.800 --> 00:36:22.500
Coordination becomes easy 
when there are crisis situations, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.813502430915833

f23e9e0c-e615-4f1e-b9e4-4c3cfba35587
00:36:22.500 --> 00:36:26.300
and when there's a common purpose 
of obtaining more fish,

00:36:26.500 --> 00:36:28.000
tribes are interested. 

00:36:28.900 --> 00:36:31.500
(Al Swift)
Bill Lowman is a fisherman 
from Anacortes

NOTE Confidence: 0.813502430915833

1a0978ed-616c-491c-b9d5-f9c8a16b3adf
00:36:31.500 --> 00:36:33.645
and a member of the
Gillnetters Association. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.813502430915833

57c0d99c-32f3-47c8-b6ff-65875c01c462
00:36:33.645 --> 00:36:35.925
Maybe your answer to this question 
is the same as his. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.813502430915833

68ab94dc-e06b-4e73-905b-921c45952e9d
00:36:35.925 --> 00:36:38.975
The gillnetters and the purse seiners 
and the trollers 

NOTE Confidence: 0.813502430915833

b5aaad9a-77c1-4f1b-bf2f-f2105634e40e
00:36:38.975 --> 00:36:40.850
have not always been 
the best of friends. 

00:36:40.850 --> 00:36:42.500
You seem to be getting along 
very well now.

NOTE Confidence: 0.813502430915833

630b726a-82c7-4bb0-8dbb-cb41fae132b0
00:36:42.500 --> 00:36:43.600
Why is that? 

00:36:43.600 --> 00:36:47.500
(Bill Lowman)
Yes, for the first time in my memory,

NOTE Confidence: 0.92164945602417

940ff18e-c25f-40d2-9373-a8c1724a4002
00:36:47.500 --> 00:36:50.910
we are getting along for the
same reason that Guy mentioned.

NOTE Confidence: 0.92164945602417

81a16bc9-adb3-4580-ae1d-db5c25a0786b
00:36:50.910 --> 00:36:53.210
We have a common cause,

NOTE Confidence: 0.800407826900482

e221dc86-fb05-4d5d-ad51-c14a3ee6d828
00:36:53.700 --> 00:36:56.350
a common problem, 
the Boldt decision, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.843994677066803

2fc9c127-3a06-40f3-93d8-de4c82ede2bc
00:36:57.150 --> 00:37:00.400
and the sportsmen also are with us.

NOTE Confidence: 0.834146320819855

c4d33e54-ddfe-44bb-aa56-153297264849
00:37:02.430 --> 00:37:05.760
We've just been getting along
beautifully, and it's uh, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.834146320819855

a85bbaf5-ee03-4d63-9405-97322af47655
00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:08.980
for the first time in my experience 
that this has ever happened. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.834146320819855

44be864b-7ad3-409e-b0eb-83ea99441270
00:37:08.980 --> 00:37:11.500
(Al Swift)
Some 600,000 sports fishermen
I believe. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.834146320819855

cfaa74ad-e7c1-4521-8096-69a1f94553b4
00:37:11.500 --> 00:37:14.500
(Bill Lowman)
There were at one time, 
some 650,000 

00:37:14.500 --> 00:37:15.800
licensed sports fisherman 
in this state.

NOTE Confidence: 0.834146320819855

9608b38b-c1b4-4048-9413-65172a5d6c27
00:37:15.800 --> 00:37:17.900
It's now down to about 450,000.

NOTE Confidence: 0.834146320819855

d004be44-6ad8-4466-b2e0-1b321ae4c64a
00:37:17.900 --> 00:37:20.500
They're dropping out 
at the rate of about 100,000 a year,

NOTE Confidence: 0.834146320819855

4c4183e2-4c1d-4af8-b164-935c2b3fdcf2
00:37:20.500 --> 00:37:25.400
according to the Game Department,
uh, due to the Boldt decision. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.834146320819855

01de2353-1949-4c55-a6a8-cc50dad1024d
00:37:25.400 --> 00:37:27.900
(Al Swift)
What we want to do this evening 
is to try and talk about 

NOTE Confidence: 0.834146320819855

6801bd5b-5bd7-4305-8219-55f0aee51add
00:37:27.900 --> 00:37:30.900
the problems of managing 
the Boldt decision, 

00:37:30.900 --> 00:37:33.900
of if you will, 
implementing the Boldt decision.

NOTE Confidence: 0.911346971988678

3983d5ed-77de-49bb-99a0-9c5394cabffe
00:37:33.900 --> 00:37:36.080
And before we can do that,
we need to deal with the fact

NOTE Confidence: 0.911346971988678

c83a9829-3ceb-4a07-a68e-398c2295fde0
00:37:36.080 --> 00:37:41.900
that there's some question as to 
whether the commercial fishermen

NOTE Confidence: 0.827917516231537

7785d462-7024-4787-9bb1-806b568227df
00:37:41.900 --> 00:37:44.500
want it implemented, 
if they are not in fact,

NOTE Confidence: 0.827917516231537

0b3fddc1-4674-4aa8-853f-465735d54d73
00:37:44.500 --> 00:37:47.928
uh, playing a strategy that
would prevent its implementation.

NOTE Confidence: 0.827917516231537

16e0d17a-ddac-46fd-bded-970205436535
00:37:47.928 --> 00:37:49.500
Do I state the position
correct? 

NOTE Confidence: 0.877774894237518

62a11fa3-6488-4cec-8cca-7d51eda1a1b3
00:37:49.500 --> 00:37:53.500
(Bill Lowman)
Yes, exactly right. 
Uh, the commercial fishermen, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.877774894237518

5b6feb1c-15c0-4063-b335-b38ccc046136
00:37:54.100 --> 00:37:58.600
almost to a man, I would say to a man, 
and the sport fishermen,

NOTE Confidence: 0.9117671251297

df57caa6-1053-4b53-bed2-56ca160434d0
00:37:59.640 --> 00:38:03.500
do not wanna see the 
Boldt decision implemented.

NOTE Confidence: 0.82821661233902

8696720a-f943-45aa-91a8-c02891d1e6a0
00:38:03.500 --> 00:38:05.883
We hear it is a 
supreme law of the land.

NOTE Confidence: 0.848557651042938

80a4bf15-b4d6-40b5-8747-07aa26efd3dc
00:38:07.130 --> 00:38:10.970
We're not so naive as to believe
that it is not the law, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.848557651042938

0a295a3a-92fe-4793-afa7-808babc63d9c
00:38:10.970 --> 00:38:14.900
but we all know in our minds 
it's a bad law. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.848557651042938

95313055-4747-4265-980c-9d34f701be35
00:38:14.900 --> 00:38:19.862
Must be modified or nullified 
so that we can live with it. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.848557651042938

7fb0f5b8-e2b6-425f-a174-e38b7595e5f5
00:38:19.862 --> 00:38:23.500
Sportsmen and commercial men 
are all of one mind on this. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.848557651042938

513dda22-063a-4156-9c81-0c06334a5646
00:38:23.500 --> 00:38:25.500
(Al Swift)
What are the mechanisms
that you plan to use 

00:38:25.500 --> 00:38:26.950
to try and prevent 
the implementation? 

NOTE Confidence: 0.848557651042938

b3400735-3895-41b0-bb30-cddf22540b51
00:38:26.950 --> 00:38:31.322
(Bill Lowman)
We have been challenging this 
in the courts at every step.

NOTE Confidence: 0.90796035528183

2b017411-5c8d-4a27-a9ca-7fd062cbed7a
00:38:32.240 --> 00:38:35.000
We've had a challenge uh, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.853788495063782

7ee5f882-d080-4565-83c7-80f6780e9078
00:38:36.100 --> 00:38:39.700
in the Supreme Court here on steelhead 
with which we were successful.

NOTE Confidence: 0.871461927890778

e8a9a0d0-8d54-4373-95d8-34a304fd7345
00:38:40.400 --> 00:38:43.936
We've had uh, several injunctions 
through our last season,

NOTE Confidence: 0.871461927890778

2f225b63-b7db-40f7-a5b6-e4c8173ee72d
00:38:43.936 --> 00:38:45.450
which were successful. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.871461927890778

6747db20-33ab-4341-9265-752163ba74b6
00:38:45.450 --> 00:38:47.972
(Al Swift)
Do you see this as a kind of 
legal guerrilla warfare? 

00:38:47.972 --> 00:38:49.360
(Bill Lowman)
Yes, definitely. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.871461927890778

ae8d923e-10a9-4ac0-9722-1ea3a92e91c9
00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:51.948
(Al Swift)
That's your, that's your strategy,
that's your intent? 

00:38:51.948 --> 00:38:56.050
(Bill Lowman)
Yes, there is also a disregard 
for Boldt's law.

NOTE Confidence: 0.871461927890778

4ec0a93a-b89f-4194-914b-37a614f096a9
00:38:56.050 --> 00:38:57.950
This is not a planned thing. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.871461927890778

527e9d47-130b-4ce1-a47b-39d68d23b7dd
00:38:57.950 --> 00:39:01.900
It's a feeling within the 
average fisherman 

00:39:01.900 --> 00:39:04.900
that most of us feel

NOTE Confidence: 0.816172122955322

911039d2-e8f1-4d51-908a-c506c4b50940
00:39:04.900 --> 00:39:08.686
that we should not abide meekly 
by the Boldt decision.

NOTE Confidence: 0.843688249588013

1a4b7dea-75d7-4261-94a1-ad86d7450645
00:39:09.500 --> 00:39:12.812
By so doing, we legitimize something 
that we think is wrong.

NOTE Confidence: 0.843688249588013

dca1dc65-6188-45e8-881d-978e88a85218
00:39:12.812 --> 00:39:15.510
Therefore we feel it almost a duty, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.866621613502502

7e1c6a94-0aba-4f3e-9424-976f6a14e663
00:39:15.510 --> 00:39:20.300
not to go by the Boldt decision 
as though it is sacred.

NOTE Confidence: 0.846311688423157

6a5a5fb1-7734-4c03-88a2-a2dcc566c7ff
00:39:21.500 --> 00:39:24.328
We've been told by attorneys 
that our only recourse

NOTE Confidence: 0.846311688423157

4f01e316-066f-43af-83e3-e1cf9b5299f2
00:39:24.328 --> 00:39:27.856
is to defy the law, get test cases 

NOTE Confidence: 0.846311688423157

acf67057-1082-4189-a1ad-2bcfd67415a3
00:39:27.856 --> 00:39:31.316
until we finally get that test case, 
which will come to grips 

NOTE Confidence: 0.846311688423157

ee7fc14f-7698-4d05-8ca0-dfb2931ae3fb
00:39:31.316 --> 00:39:34.900
with the constitutionality of 
the Boldt decision itself.

NOTE Confidence: 0.85523247718811

dd4ddec8-0fe5-438f-bcfe-2d045037bf4f
00:39:34.900 --> 00:39:37.800
We have one case now which is 
approaching the Supreme Court.

NOTE Confidence: 0.85523247718811

39eec097-b62f-4e0f-a8ed-c20923bcc4f8
00:39:37.800 --> 00:39:40.992
It's gone through the 
Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals,

NOTE Confidence: 0.85523247718811

e1a002d2-1184-439c-b1b1-3b0769061cc1
00:39:40.992 --> 00:39:44.700
was dismissed there, 
but not on the, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.85523247718811

a872aa5c-09fd-4944-86a2-3776330cb4db
00:39:44.700 --> 00:39:47.900
the decision not to hear the case 
at the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals,

NOTE Confidence: 0.875688076019287

e9c367f4-50cc-433b-9ac7-8e42fc097774
00:39:48.500 --> 00:39:51.740
was on various excuses, let me say. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.875688076019287

d6fba231-6f03-465a-8ffe-ee516f5fe492
00:39:51.740 --> 00:39:53.988
They did not get to 
the merits of the case.

NOTE Confidence: 0.799500405788422

6536293a-33e3-4d05-a6ed-44446c46a52e
00:39:53.988 --> 00:39:56.000
Now it goes to the Supreme Court. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.799500405788422

289d1de4-2047-4ba3-bd3a-e63637e984a6
00:39:56.000 --> 00:39:58.900
We hope the Supreme Court
will hear the Burt case, 

00:39:58.900 --> 00:40:00.500
I'm speaking of the Lauren Burt case,

NOTE Confidence: 0.799500405788422

7c473bc4-ebfb-4a1b-955a-96500bf24394
00:40:00.500 --> 00:40:03.500
on the merits of the case, which is 
strictly on constitutionality. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.799500405788422

32fb9adc-6223-4a9e-a5e3-cd4703baa566
00:40:03.500 --> 00:40:06.880
(Al Swift)
OK, I want to get back to the fact that 
you agree you're planning a kind of-

00:40:06.880 --> 00:40:07.120
(Bill Lowman)
Yes.

NOTE Confidence: 0.799500405788422

fdef76ff-6093-491e-8cd0-328c6d5547a6
00:40:07.120 --> 00:40:10.651
(Al Swift)
-political guerrilla warfare 
as a, as a, or legal guerilla-

00:40:10.651 --> 00:40:11.650
(Bill Lowman)
A legal guerilla warfare would be-

00:40:11.650 --> 00:40:12.800
(Al Swift)
As an attempt to-

00:40:12.800 --> 00:40:13.500
(Bill Lowman)
-correct.

00:40:13.500 --> 00:40:14.500
(Al Swift)
-prevent its implementation.

00:40:14.500 --> 00:40:14.950
(Bill Lowman)
Yes.

NOTE Confidence: 0.799500405788422

2a11cbbd-7849-4ca3-91db-51ca5d6eb567
00:40:14.950 --> 00:40:19.920
(Al Swift)
Now, Guy, as a member of the 
Indian Fisheries Commission,

NOTE Confidence: 0.83188396692276

967ecbf5-5b32-4b6b-85e8-cc883e10f0e1
00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:24.900
what is your reaction to that as a, 
as a, as a technique, as a strategy?

NOTE Confidence: 0.83188396692276

c064ae28-b660-4f43-b9d5-bfdfb5d90dea
00:40:24.900 --> 00:40:29.600
(Guy McMinds)
Well, we know that that technique 
is being applied. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.915148317813873

38bcfb1f-b828-4036-8fea-f890a6b6531a
00:40:29.600 --> 00:40:35.480
And we, as a strategy 
would like to counter that 

NOTE Confidence: 0.903794705867767

c8c28225-2ff5-4c8b-bd6c-40a446c8834d
00:40:35.480 --> 00:40:41.550
by saying responsible approaches 
are what is necessary. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.906285166740417

2e617627-602c-442a-94b9-aa5f4b51a058
00:40:41.900 --> 00:40:45.000
The Boldt decision 
is the law of the land,

NOTE Confidence: 0.906285166740417

c3c6d7bf-f821-4815-a84f-4e6d43127d22
00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:48.482
and what is going to get us 
out of the predicament 

NOTE Confidence: 0.900155484676361

b501e8fb-1636-48ab-987b-1fe678adc71b
00:40:48.482 --> 00:40:53.030
is to take a approach uh,  

NOTE Confidence: 0.900987684726715

ee88330b-32c7-4a90-882f-8b17f25a25ba
00:40:53.030 --> 00:40:57.500
with new biological techniques
to raise more fish, 

00:40:57.880 --> 00:40:59.900
to try to get cooperation

NOTE Confidence: 0.900987684726715

0f28aef5-d453-457c-a11b-6b22045974e7
00:40:59.900 --> 00:41:04.500
between the various groups 
in the industry, 

00:41:04.500 --> 00:41:10.500
and to try to pull all factions 
of the industry together

NOTE Confidence: 0.900987684726715

e0791fec-78e5-44a8-a3d2-c9df2208bd44
00:41:10.500 --> 00:41:14.700
to fight the common enemy. 
The common enemy is not the fisherman.

NOTE Confidence: 0.871756494045258

d267f415-6b32-4a62-be12-697fcf99c343
00:41:15.922 --> 00:41:19.600
The common enemy is 
international fisheries 

NOTE Confidence: 0.871756494045258

50d77950-8266-484a-98d0-825b1cd6a513
00:41:19.600 --> 00:41:22.950
that are taking 85% of the fish.  

NOTE Confidence: 0.871756494045258

95b7bc45-f41b-40af-ac12-7d82eae39ebc
00:41:22.950 --> 00:41:27.930
The common enemy is the destroyer
of the natural environment for fish. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.871756494045258

51e2d776-9967-44c8-8b78-d364ece832fc
00:41:27.930 --> 00:41:29.926
The common enemy is the Congress

NOTE Confidence: 0.871756494045258

6a48e11d-987f-4b7c-b37c-c6eafd0c1fdc
00:41:29.926 --> 00:41:34.500
that will not appropriate 
enough money to alleviate the problem.

NOTE Confidence: 0.758961081504822

a70b6ac4-5ec3-4d15-a71f-81ed5f24b44a
00:41:34.880 --> 00:41:39.702
Uh, and our- our approach, 
at least on Quinault, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.818758964538574

9f6b8939-a60b-4bce-b393-c4c2f140654e
00:41:40.500 --> 00:41:43.450
is to try to, to, 

00:41:43.900 --> 00:41:48.900
educate the factions

NOTE Confidence: 0.840242028236389

3e625dd7-6f63-4cdd-8568-626a895632f7
00:41:48.900 --> 00:41:51.970
that are common enemies
to the fisheries resource. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.840242028236389

c140c76b-fc64-40cd-8dc0-b9fc2255ae17
00:41:51.970 --> 00:41:55.080
(Al Swift)
Are you saying now that if crisis
can bring the Indian tribes together,

NOTE Confidence: 0.840242028236389

0f0e3434-c550-4e62-ab73-7c24e55baa1f
00:41:55.080 --> 00:41:57.908
if crisis can bring the various kinds 
of fishermen together,

NOTE Confidence: 0.840242028236389

65584b57-646e-4d8b-b64f-a59d9549f1b2
00:41:57.908 --> 00:42:00.500
that both Indian 
and non Indian fishermen 

NOTE Confidence: 0.840242028236389

b60d9389-3b61-4853-8f43-ad09a5025f9e
00:42:00.500 --> 00:42:02.095
are facing a resource crisis-

00:42:02.095 --> 00:42:02.850
(Guy McMinds)
That's right.

00:42:02.850 -->00:42:04.000
(Al Swift)
-and they should come together 

NOTE Confidence: 0.840242028236389

9fcd9351-b0d7-40db-a629-c416a3b06d39
00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:06.400
and fight it together, 
that's your strategy? 

NOTE Confidence: 0.840242028236389

7f38a851-4820-42ba-b726-f395123a3d3e
00:42:06.400 --> 00:42:08.916
(Guy McMinds)
That's absolutely correct. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.874862611293793

6206e281-e1ce-4edc-a337-43a223819625
00:42:08.916 --> 00:42:12.500
The fisheries resource, as a resource, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.886411607265472

44a13fc8-6195-4b84-99ec-f6e749308c6d
00:42:12.500 --> 00:42:17.006
was going under management 
prior to Boldt.

NOTE Confidence: 0.886411607265472

e733f725-4547-43a5-b038-3b681dee9fe3
00:42:17.880 --> 00:42:20.500
The greatest uh, danger 

00:42:20.500 --> 00:42:25.000
was coming from the fact 
that there's a hungry world, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.864777803421021

e51f14da-ef8b-43e7-b9f5-64167f3ba105
00:42:25.550 --> 00:42:30.972
and that international fishing fleets
were coming in on our resource.

NOTE Confidence: 0.864777803421021

b7bc7eda-f066-4fd9-abe0-3f9e20592322
00:42:30.972 --> 00:42:33.406
(Al Swift)
OK now Bill seems like 
he'd like to leap in, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.864777803421021

b46a7f73-d1e5-4d68-ba16-e3cfa5c5f275
00:42:33.406 --> 00:42:34.940
but I'd like to talk to 
the man in the middle.

NOTE Confidence: 0.864777803421021

d3460ffd-4f34-4ec9-bbc7-3eb62c1e75cb
00:42:34.940 --> 00:42:37.943
Now we have an idea 
of what the two strategies are 

00:42:37.943 --> 00:42:40.060
at this point in time. 
Where does that leave you? 

NOTE Confidence: 0.864777803421021

6c53cb87-2c36-4700-8a88-aee98a7a44c1
00:42:41.000 --> 00:42:44.500
(Donald W. Moos)
Leaves me right where I am,
kinda in the middle, because uh,  

NOTE Confidence: 0.864777803421021

dda7b5e5-f955-4f77-9607-7649b3942f91
00:42:44.500 --> 00:42:48.060
I do not have a strategy.
I uh, I have to agree with Guy, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.864777803421021

6838fa2a-fafb-4d9c-9f58-60a0a735c0bd
00:42:48.980 --> 00:42:52.980
that the um, issue itself 
has had a good effect

NOTE Confidence: 0.860597789287567

85bceb36-4f24-479d-affe-631099fb7ecc
00:42:52.980 --> 00:42:56.000
because it has focused 
the common enemy, 

00:42:56.000 --> 00:43:00.900
and uh, it is neither the 
commercial fisherman nor the tribes. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.860597789287567

dd01ffb2-689e-499f-a8be-812afe458027
00:43:00.900 --> 00:43:06.964
The common enemy has been uh,
civilization over a good many years,

NOTE Confidence: 0.860597789287567

21c42a35-cd83-4e7c-8b7c-5b9e281ee146
00:43:06.964 --> 00:43:09.998
that, and mismanagement 
over good many years, 

00:43:09.998 --> 00:43:12.500
that has reduced the run of fish. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.860597789287567

193d7c72-460d-4409-a240-e9ab8f6c960c
00:43:12.500 --> 00:43:16.200
And part of the mismanagement has uh, 
in many cases has been causing say,

NOTE Confidence: 0.860597789287567

0470300f-a1a8-473d-baa2-587e3c1e29f2
00:43:16.200 --> 00:43:20.912
a commercial fleet to get 
beyond the size that it uh, could,

NOTE Confidence: 0.87743353843689

d05cd349-cff4-4335-bc0d-5065fa7936a7
00:43:20.912 --> 00:43:23.500
uh that it needed to go, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.87743353843689

2aeace9b-d874-4c06-b656-d3a49eb380d5
00:43:23.500 --> 00:43:28.050
uh too easy on many of the degradations 
of our environment, 

00:43:28.050 --> 00:43:29.900
these are common things. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.87743353843689

669b2403-0ee0-4648-a175-34f39a7c9020
00:43:29.900 --> 00:43:32.500
But I find myself of course 
in the middle. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.87743353843689

7cfadc9a-c8f3-4574-be86-9dea53e78571
00:43:32.500 --> 00:43:36.950
I'm not arguing whether 
the Boldt decision is right or wrong, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.87743353843689

1e888e0a-c30d-418c-8c70-f20428c1d2e6
00:43:36.950 --> 00:43:42.050
but day to day in trying to 
make the decisions that are correct,

NOTE Confidence: 0.87743353843689

15a9976c-c35f-4d73-8769-012eff6e75e7
00:43:42.850 --> 00:43:47.954
legally correct, to reduce the 
conflict and to preserve the runs. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.87743353843689

b0bb2a89-4f40-4990-b234-93d5face6abf
00:43:47.954 --> 00:43:51.400
I have as I indicated, 
one particular charge, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.87308931350708

a6f4e09f-1256-42e9-8a78-5f65688a3c98
00:43:51.400 --> 00:43:56.250
and that is to conserve the resource 
so that it can perpetuate itself. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.87308931350708

c403e64f-6a60-4aeb-9f47-7520def4946e
00:43:56.350 --> 00:43:57.908
And in order to do that, 

00:43:57.908 --> 00:44:01.800
a myriad of different types 
of regulations have to go forth.

NOTE Confidence: 0.87308931350708

6189413e-626f-4930-8d41-83f100276e74
00:44:02.200 --> 00:44:06.850
Well then when you add on top of that, 
the preservation of the resource,

NOTE Confidence: 0.87308931350708

49d57319-9590-4081-88ab-f89ec55e6b44
00:44:06.850 --> 00:44:07.964
and add another element, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.87308931350708

929e6542-aa8b-4b64-a344-188efdafe04b
00:44:07.964 --> 00:44:10.998
and that is the division 
of the fish fifty-fifty,

NOTE Confidence: 0.87308931350708

50210b66-e227-4d0e-b194-d80089d5af89
00:44:10.998 --> 00:44:14.450
or the opportunity to have 
the division fifty-fifty, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.87308931350708

d50765a5-09c3-4fa5-8582-0219ff6ebf0f
00:44:14.450 --> 00:44:18.880
you add an element that really 
becomes very, very controversial. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.87308931350708

58794e17-37cb-4ee1-a3d3-39c0d62c3e40
00:44:18.880 --> 00:44:23.430
Then you superimpose on that, 
the situation that federal law

NOTE Confidence: 0.854701340198517

58fa6358-d4f9-40af-93ed-d0dbaba484e3
00:44:23.430 --> 00:44:27.600
places a demand on me 
as a state official, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.854701340198517

59c2baf7-0143-4dbd-b343-a038eaf7f3a6
00:44:27.600 --> 00:44:30.990
that state law will not 
allow me to fulfill. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.854701340198517

1be009d2-85e0-4eb4-9de7-8d33c28b885c
00:44:30.990 --> 00:44:34.980
As an example, 
I have only one authority, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.854701340198517

2b70c679-b6f3-477d-99b2-c1135091cc2d
00:44:34.980 --> 00:44:36.900
and that's to conserve the runs.

00:44:36.900 --> 00:44:41.800
I do not have the authority 
to divide fish fifty-fifty.

NOTE Confidence: 0.854701340198517

2ec3575e-356b-4efa-8873-665b2d9b1416
00:44:41.800 --> 00:44:43.620
I do not have the authority to say 

00:44:43.620 --> 00:44:47.980
that Bill as a gillnetter 
can catch so many fish 

NOTE Confidence: 0.854701340198517

985260bd-b2fc-47dd-a88f-45867cae9a7e
00:44:47.980 --> 00:44:51.480
and a purse seiner can catch
so many and a sportsman so many.

NOTE Confidence: 0.854701340198517

0b29012f-cb7b-4db7-9e70-453244ea559d
00:44:51.480 --> 00:44:54.990
I do not have the authority to say 
that a white fisherman 

NOTE Confidence: 0.847696602344513

b0e2c997-fbff-4f14-b7ff-92a9e2159c4c
00:44:54.990 --> 00:44:58.500
or non Indian fishermen, 
can catch 50% an Indian. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.847696602344513

0adc9e1f-fc28-4a95-b71b-1040ae50b997
00:44:58.500 --> 00:45:03.995
So we go into that conflict. 
Uh, this is the uh conflict 

00:45:03.995 --> 00:45:06.900
that takes me constantly 
before the court.

NOTE Confidence: 0.847696602344513

4165393a-e010-4786-bc98-237c97825e22
00:45:06.900 --> 00:45:09.100
(Al Swift)
Well if we can for a moment,

NOTE Confidence: 0.847696602344513

1ee40d19-aa1b-4968-aaae-3943bb83b9c5
00:45:09.100 --> 00:45:12.400
put aside the fact that 
the commercial fishermen 

NOTE Confidence: 0.847696602344513

6d166c8a-a675-4afd-96b9-40c5d9ff13d3
00:45:12.400 --> 00:45:15.980
feel would be to their best interest 
not to implement it, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.847696602344513

5516f308-b65f-4bd9-ae8a-19a614b10a78
00:45:15.980 --> 00:45:18.400
you seem to be saying 
that under present state law, 

00:45:18.400 --> 00:45:20.780
it's almost impossible 
to implement it anyway.

00:45:20.780 --> 00:45:21.700
Are you saying that?

NOTE Confidence: 0.847696602344513

8dcb60dc-0e00-43f7-bcf0-23cfc94b9fd9
00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:24.300
(Donald W. Moos)
Well, there's parts of it 

00:45:24.300 --> 00:45:27.900
that are certainly very difficult 
to implement.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885249853134155

d10fa348-ec44-4eee-a69a-96091ec04f4b
00:45:27.900 --> 00:45:32.990
However, uh I do not make the laws, 
I merely administer them.

00:45:32.990 --> 00:45:36.900
(Al Swift)
Do you need, do you need more 
and different state laws

NOTE Confidence: 0.885249853134155

283ac6be-de18-4822-a426-9583bb4fdf33
00:45:36.900 --> 00:45:40.500
in Washington state in order for you 
to implement Boldt's decision,

NOTE Confidence: 0.885249853134155

42546f0e-7359-4bee-8126-1319580223e2
00:45:40.500 --> 00:45:41.550
if that's what you wanted to do? 

NOTE Confidence: 0.885249853134155

69730644-5e64-449a-b01d-59fdd7a5aa64
00:45:41.550 --> 00:45:42.550
(Donald W. Moos)
I certainly do. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.885249853134155

e61a59a4-7e08-4485-b08b-9f3c378f8e9a
00:45:42.550 --> 00:45:45.900
And I stood before the Legislature 
week after week 

00:45:45.900 --> 00:45:49.980
to avert the type of a conflict 
that I am in right now. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.885249853134155

78d26419-3efe-4d54-8c96-248eb07a5fd3
00:45:49.980 --> 00:45:53.500
But Bill brings out a 
very interesting point.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885173082351685

d8634817-936a-47e4-b71c-be5c7f940194
00:45:53.500 --> 00:46:00.482
Uh, in their best interests,
they want it extremely difficult

NOTE Confidence: 0.885173082351685

24efd0a3-9483-4f01-96e9-fb247b62e585
00:46:00.482 --> 00:46:06.900
or impossible for me to implement, 
and cause the conflict to remain,

NOTE Confidence: 0.885173082351685

becd7405-f11c-4284-a0ae-7540820e38f0
00:46:06.900 --> 00:46:09.420
and that's why I am caught 
in this middle.

NOTE Confidence: 0.885173082351685

d149b9ab-2925-4e60-9a04-c1a9eedb416a
00:46:09.420 --> 00:46:13.780
And uh I find it not particularly
uncommon 

NOTE Confidence: 0.885173082351685

0041b521-d131-496d-a1be-0386ecdedc0c
00:46:13.780 --> 00:46:17.984
to have two distinct court orders uh, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.904334723949432

4465ebd2-a7ff-422d-b64d-b953dc9313b7
00:46:17.984 --> 00:46:22.800
telling me to do 
two opposite things in management.

NOTE Confidence: 0.820092678070068

efc2700b-845d-494b-ac6f-1f4a0058a8bd
00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:25.885
This diametrically opposed each other. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.820092678070068

bad0ce5d-f477-4568-8849-97cde311e299
00:46:25.885 --> 00:46:27.900
(Al Swift)
So whatever decision you make 
you're in contempt of court.

NOTE Confidence: 0.820092678070068

19c46dd4-b04b-4b6a-a7be-3772cc386ea4
00:46:27.900 --> 00:46:29.500
(Donald W. Moos)
Of one court or the other.

00:46:29.500 --> 00:46:32.900
And uh Bill, that is actually 
what you have in mind.

NOTE Confidence: 0.820092678070068

2f0dab86-74ef-416a-aca9-568e0424dcd0
00:46:32.900 --> 00:46:33.500
(Bill Lowman)
This is right. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.820092678070068

9fd8c521-e995-49a7-bf46-620c0b3536d9
00:46:33.500 --> 00:46:36.000
And so what is actually occurring 
right now as of today, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.820092678070068

6aa46648-5ff7-4596-a650-a41b1295c8a9
00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:41.900
uh having heard that uh, 
Judge Belloni now in Oregon there, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.820092678070068

5c3085df-dfcd-42cf-8b31-e91d80d162aa
00:46:41.900 --> 00:46:45.940
has uh given a rule uh, 
opposite to our state Supreme Court 

NOTE Confidence: 0.820092678070068

618f6432-4184-4b25-8354-ab0b6cc716e0
00:46:45.940 --> 00:46:49.995
in regard to the troll fishery 
in the Columbia River Resource,

NOTE Confidence: 0.835656106472015

0228e178-2d44-4622-9add-4051ebae132c
00:46:49.995 --> 00:46:53.444
which puts Mr. Moos
right in the middle 

NOTE Confidence: 0.828968226909637

89786b30-94a2-42ba-b24c-f1387c71d66d
00:46:53.444 --> 00:46:56.650
between our state Supreme Court 
and the Belloni Court.

00:46:57.000 --> 00:47:02.500
And as far as the commercial fishermen 
are concerned, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.828968226909637

cf3f5e0b-655a-496a-acb8-e40598fc8c57
00:47:02.500 --> 00:47:05.044
and the sportfishermen of this state, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.828968226909637

87bbef6b-a166-47fc-843e-14ce3059b50e
00:47:05.044 --> 00:47:09.004
we in no way intend to 
help implement the Boldt decision 

NOTE Confidence: 0.828968226909637

d3dfd525-6533-4bb6-83cd-6d831220fc5b
00:47:09.004 --> 00:47:12.964
because we feel the Boldt decision 
is wrong inherently to begin with. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.828968226909637

ec412b09-6868-4b14-954b-e2ea9fa9cad8
00:47:12.964 --> 00:47:17.320
To assist in the implementation of
something we feel is wrong would be uh,

NOTE Confidence: 0.828968226909637

836c00ae-2950-4fdd-a27a-4ed4b470c5ef
00:47:17.320 --> 00:47:21.100
not to our best interests.
And that's where we stand on the case.

NOTE Confidence: 0.828968226909637

ddfa7118-b1b9-44f2-b2fc-1c19a24c9390
00:47:21.100 --> 00:47:25.924
(Guy McMinds)
Bill, even at the expense 
of your own livelihood, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.863121211528778

02c96fdd-be3f-4028-be08-7cc49faec49a
00:47:25.924 --> 00:47:31.505
you're not going to, 
to implement a court order? 

NOTE Confidence: 0.89982533454895

0f2b00ca-f357-4bcd-b730-3b10820fcde6
00:47:31.505 --> 00:47:38.500
(Bill Lowman)
Our livelihood is simply going to be
nonexistent with the Boldt decision.

NOTE Confidence: 0.841568052768707

7ce2c6b4-e19f-4f37-b926-e6cb0248d6ef
00:47:39.400 --> 00:47:43.080
Uh, it's even deeper than that Guy. 
This thing has become,

NOTE Confidence: 0.841568052768707

232e6aed-45ac-4fcb-95c5-17fa52a195c8
00:47:43.080 --> 00:47:47.490
I don't want to go into this 
at this time, it was partly on the film.

NOTE Confidence: 0.841568052768707

4ad839ea-28c5-4a38-ab6e-b24fb539305f
00:47:47.490 --> 00:47:50.800
Uh, the idea that we feel 
it's an immoral thing.

NOTE Confidence: 0.841568052768707

9c9bf4e0-369f-4d44-b050-70ef795408f4
00:47:50.800 --> 00:47:53.980
(Al Swift)
Factor in the, Bill puts it 
on a moral level. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.841568052768707

1ff371c5-81f4-47d0-8fa2-c68403a1f345
00:47:53.980 --> 00:47:56.100
Let's get back to 
the fisheries level on this. 

00:47:56.100 --> 00:47:59.650
Is it true in your judgment, 
as a fisheries expert,

NOTE Confidence: 0.841568052768707

c7e3a1e3-2672-494f-ba0e-909c4e0701d7
00:47:59.650 --> 00:48:03.995
that the Boldt decision alone 
will kill commercial fishing,

NOTE Confidence: 0.841568052768707

aac82ff8-6a1e-4415-8c71-4042cb8df7ca
00:48:03.995 --> 00:48:05.960
and leave it only up to 
the Indian fishing?

NOTE Confidence: 0.841568052768707

7015c86c-daa1-4b40-a7d1-fc2936c30ec3
00:48:05.960 --> 00:48:09.470
(Richard R. Whitney)
No, not at all. 
That, of course, was not the intent, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.841568052768707

b040c93b-add9-4ad3-935e-0a2ec339040c
00:48:09.470 --> 00:48:11.365
but as was brought out 
in the film clips,

NOTE Confidence: 0.860827922821045

b003f03f-cce6-4014-b2d8-2e36e6c1126c
00:48:11.365 --> 00:48:13.911
it does mean a new process of sharing. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.860827922821045

b02cb1c9-4969-44c5-9caf-10282d6995e1
00:48:13.911 --> 00:48:15.901
This means that people have to 

00:48:15.901 --> 00:48:17.900
move over and accommodate 
the new shares, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.860827922821045

9d6798e5-be1b-4453-9d2d-fa7117e5ba3e
00:48:17.900 --> 00:48:22.000
so certainly it does mean 
a hardship for some people. 

00:48:22.000 --> 00:48:23.600
But as Mr. McMinds indicated,

NOTE Confidence: 0.860827922821045

eb17d97b-247b-4bf9-ad22-bbc2e8cb0b63
00:48:23.600 --> 00:48:27.957
if we can increase the supply of fish,
if we can double the supply of fish,

NOTE Confidence: 0.860827922821045

61639b70-c7fb-4e47-9c8c-595f9a29b69a
00:48:27.957 --> 00:48:30.866
we'd still be right where we were 
before the Boldt decision,

NOTE Confidence: 0.860827922821045

a919b9a5-a0b2-493c-ab63-f9e95d4c6edb
00:48:30.866 --> 00:48:33.556
so it's not entirely the Boldt decision 
that's done this.

00:48:33.556 --> 00:48:38.900
(Al Swift)
Could we talk about a couple of 
very mundane parts of implementation,

NOTE Confidence: 0.860827922821045

cbf4587b-8cae-4cd2-acf7-f5b5e2ece5f8
00:48:38.900 --> 00:48:42.536
presuming some of these problems 
could be solved over here?

NOTE Confidence: 0.860827922821045

759ba8c2-e0b4-45d7-97d7-422d10b8bcd8
00:48:42.536 --> 00:48:45.400
How do you go about determining 
when half the fish has been caught?

NOTE Confidence: 0.852969467639923

d3d4590a-314d-445f-bdd3-ddc8cca7101e
00:48:45.400 --> 00:48:48.400
There are tremendous disparity 
in reports 

NOTE Confidence: 0.852969467639923

501318c4-79fc-42c2-9d5e-fb9f3f4eede2
00:48:48.400 --> 00:48:49.920
as to how much the Indians are getting, 

00:48:49.920 --> 00:48:52.900
anywhere from 5% 
to well over 50% of the catch. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.852969467639923

7c9348fe-c0c5-4dad-9acd-bd5174da2f5c
00:48:52.900 --> 00:48:56.550
Is there a good management technique 
for measuring catch?

NOTE Confidence: 0.852969467639923

64d9974b-953f-4c40-8aea-651f0b35d392
00:48:56.970 --> 00:48:59.970
(Richard R. Whitney)
Yes, of course one of 
Judge Boldt's court orders 

NOTE Confidence: 0.852969467639923

af939216-e862-4d71-81b7-7fce2f1d9396
00:48:59.970 --> 00:49:02.900
requires that accurate catch records 
be kept

00:49:02.900 --> 00:49:05.900
and that requires that fish tickets
be submitted 

NOTE Confidence: 0.852969467639923

f3dcd9a4-f5a4-4c56-bc0d-a0408a793a16
00:49:05.900 --> 00:49:08.380
to the Department of Fisheries 
computer systems.

NOTE Confidence: 0.852969467639923

15202706-7817-4ddb-a4e4-e63c61cc8f6c
00:49:08.380 --> 00:49:09.500
So the Department of Fisheries 

NOTE Confidence: 0.852969467639923

1e4942b6-9bdb-49df-83f8-e4a7edc536a7
00:49:09.500 --> 00:49:13.900
has the responsibility ultimately 
for maintaining the catch records

NOTE Confidence: 0.852969467639923

8358edbf-15e3-4b36-84f0-625d7c3c44c2
00:49:13.900 --> 00:49:17.800
that are supplied both by the
commercial, sport, and Indians.

NOTE Confidence: 0.87856650352478

68bdc708-431d-4ccd-a2e8-e5ad0bb2a0ba
00:49:17.990 --> 00:49:20.967
The Department of Fisheries 
also has a responsibility 

NOTE Confidence: 0.87856650352478

2993372c-9a44-455e-8e2e-42fa25c9b5cf
00:49:20.967 --> 00:49:23.600
for determining the run sizes 
to begin with,

NOTE Confidence: 0.802514672279358

cab8968a-eeec-4b1e-92da-a9c7b1ef162f
00:49:24.895 --> 00:49:27.136
and for determining
the escapement goals.

NOTE Confidence: 0.868720531463623

008c3639-59e5-4246-b419-37b5e97d4063
00:49:27.450 --> 00:49:30.711
So that with those two numbers,
then we can determine

NOTE Confidence: 0.868720531463623

6f51f86f-4737-48ce-8eb4-bfd519c3e94f
00:49:30.711 --> 00:49:34.500
the harvestable number and that is
what gets split fifty-fifty. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.868720531463623

7c42b389-af4e-4248-9c2a-c77c859a4623
00:49:34.500 --> 00:49:35.983
(Al Swift)
And what other management techniques 
would you use 

NOTE Confidence: 0.868720531463623

57ecd3f7-ee8c-4d4e-872c-686eaf159912
00:49:35.983 --> 00:49:39.692
if you were in the position
to dictate this 

00:49:39.692 --> 00:49:41.600
without all the controversy 
surrounding?

NOTE Confidence: 0.868720531463623

49553112-a066-4861-8f5c-e97552215e1f
00:49:41.600 --> 00:49:43.500
What other management techniques 
would you use 

00:49:43.500 --> 00:49:45.700
to improve the size of the resource?

NOTE Confidence: 0.868720531463623

5da2a7b8-fcbf-4077-81f2-558136f6efea
00:49:46.253 --> 00:49:50.800
(Richard R. Whitney)
Well there are lots of possibilities 
for increasing the runs of fish.

NOTE Confidence: 0.868720531463623

edcdaecb-2c51-470c-9baf-aad3f2631975
00:49:50.800 --> 00:49:51.926
One of the things that we've done 

NOTE Confidence: 0.868720531463623

7f795eee-6394-4412-b530-bf2455c67cd3
00:49:51.926 --> 00:49:55.400
is let our backyard streams even,
decline.

NOTE Confidence: 0.868720531463623

3941fcdd-6c4f-4750-a19c-47707d81c3b2
00:49:55.400 --> 00:49:58.187
There are possibilities 
even in these small cricks

NOTE Confidence: 0.788957118988037

59be7fa4-6ae8-4fca-b37a-23f99e82a057
00:49:58.187 --> 00:50:01.672
around Lake Washington for
producing large numbers of Coho.

NOTE Confidence: 0.788957118988037

7edb4cd6-8f91-4365-bc0e-99e6b3fee829
00:50:01.672 --> 00:50:06.500
People unconsciously have
blocked off the runs. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.788957118988037

acfeb127-aa5f-42f3-8ec7-c6cbec177ce2
00:50:06.500 --> 00:50:10.932
They've put culverts in that 
don't let the fish get through anymore.

NOTE Confidence: 0.788957118988037

ea881b2e-1ce2-49aa-8c47-5dfd4a4b0f19
00:50:10.932 --> 00:50:13.534
They've uh, dumped garbage 
in the stream. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.788957118988037

a716ab8a-647e-4610-a16f-2de61d689260
00:50:13.534 --> 00:50:17.970
They've uh, sprayed their gardens 
and let the spray get into the crick 

NOTE Confidence: 0.788957118988037

4e790975-73b2-4b7b-8757-0d70ef5dde68
00:50:17.970 --> 00:50:19.870
and so forth.
Even locally, 

00:50:19.870 --> 00:50:22.400
there are things we could do 
to improve the runs of fish.

NOTE Confidence: 0.788957118988037

46036ab8-a314-45ea-a3e4-344fa19a6de8
00:50:22.400 --> 00:50:24.000
(Al Swift)
What are the effect of things like uh,

NOTE Confidence: 0.836349904537201

65a763a8-7eab-4764-bc04-6b7936a27b64
00:50:24.952 --> 00:50:26.957
international agreements
with Canadian fishermen

NOTE Confidence: 0.836349904537201

7bffd7e0-109c-4c04-b2e8-bdd6d8f6da58
00:50:26.957 --> 00:50:30.950
on the resource that has to be 
divided now fifty-fifty here? 

NOTE Confidence: 0.836349904537201

cc2af04d-4cb2-4795-a162-9b322c129a30
00:50:30.950 --> 00:50:32.521
(Richard R. Whitney)
Well as uh was indicated, 

00:50:32.521 --> 00:50:35.400
the Canadians do intercept 
a lot of our fish,

NOTE Confidence: 0.836349904537201

cb392e37-95c0-47ea-a52d-559921438306
00:50:35.400 --> 00:50:39.953
up to 75% of our Chinooks 
before they even get into Puget Sound. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.836349904537201

8c42e3d6-51d3-4004-91ef-d32f4425c389
00:50:39.953 --> 00:50:42.902
Last year, we didn't have any
harvestable numbers of Chinook staff

NOTE Confidence: 0.836349904537201

2550c4f9-f83e-49cd-9bab-ed1199f4d2c5
00:50:42.902 --> 00:50:46.951
to- in some fisheries after 
the Canadians got through with 'em.

NOTE Confidence: 0.836349904537201

7a736674-5fb1-4a9c-bb81-9a128698f27d
00:50:46.951 --> 00:50:52.944
But of course we get our share 
of Fraser River fish in exchange.

NOTE Confidence: 0.836349904537201

c6d438ce-d44e-4e56-a71d-d78fef535167
00:50:52.944 --> 00:50:55.993
That's part of the 
negotiations with Canada.

NOTE Confidence: 0.876873910427094

2dd40734-f248-46a0-beee-18d53b016266
00:50:55.990 --> 00:50:57.912
Well, it's not 
a straightforward picture, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.876873910427094

9f1d3d2c-ea84-4c6b-a39d-609872ea0328
00:50:57.912 --> 00:50:58.964
black and white. 

00:50:58.964 --> 00:51:01.950
We, we lose someplace, 
we gain someplace else, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.876873910427094

20501490-e227-44f4-a447-b75e353a9a40
00:51:01.950 --> 00:51:05.840
and there are particular segments 
of the fishery that may lose. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.876873910427094

5253b602-7ba3-4017-9c38-9bd2ef338e98
00:51:05.840 --> 00:51:07.330
It happens that the Indians 
are the ones 

NOTE Confidence: 0.876873910427094

16db3bb7-a407-49b6-a904-e4a061914891
00:51:07.330 --> 00:51:10.714
that have been losing consistently,
before the Boldt decision.

NOTE Confidence: 0.820141732692719

1a99e38a-264b-416e-a77b-e2281049993e
00:51:11.810 --> 00:51:13.750
(Al Swift)
I feel you wanting to jump in, Bill.

NOTE Confidence: 0.89172089099884

17fe95b5-f7da-4769-bfc5-b00b244f87ca
00:51:13.750 --> 00:51:20.000
(Bill Lowman)
Well, I uh feel this way, that we keep 
saying the Indians have been losing.

NOTE Confidence: 0.868254661560059

aed8428d-05a9-4574-a31e-57285628d693
00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:24.910
I feel that the Indians, it's a fact, 
have always had

NOTE Confidence: 0.868254661560059

291780b5-2930-4f90-a9dd-f972bd34afdc
00:51:24.910 --> 00:51:27.514
the opportunity and the mobility
if they chose, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.868254661560059

c212b61d-f8e6-483e-8547-49ddbaf3e2c6
00:51:27.514 --> 00:51:29.482
to fish the same as any other citizen.

00:51:30.050 --> 00:51:30.990
(Guy McMinds)
No.

NOTE Confidence: 0.829431891441345

ff1e3f3b-08a3-4f3d-bfdf-b169f7957ab9
00:51:30.990 --> 00:51:33.471
(Bill Lowman)
If they haven't availed 
themselves of that uh, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.829431891441345

8f99a446-47b0-4dc2-9f80-5fbf7da5130a
00:51:33.471 --> 00:51:36.510
this to a certain extent 
is their own fault. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.829431891441345

82766444-da37-4443-a6f7-d914690e1ffd
00:51:36.510 --> 00:51:37.835
(Al Swift)
That's an argument that was made 
in the film, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.829431891441345

bf32bfee-cbf8-4582-8749-363cff859f51
00:51:37.835 --> 00:51:39.978
and I notice that Guy made a note 
when uh, 

00:51:39.978 --> 00:51:40.500
(Guy McMinds)
Yeah.

00:51:40.500 --> 00:51:41.500
(Al Swift)
-when it was said. 
What is your response? 

NOTE Confidence: 0.829431891441345

e138d295-962e-4df1-9a16-e91ae8fc62ba
00:51:41.500 --> 00:51:44.933
(Guy McMinds)
Your, your, your idea of 
equal opportunity 

NOTE Confidence: 0.883330404758453

bde6f492-2b3d-48d6-ad8c-d0c7d0136ef3
00:51:44.933 --> 00:51:51.500
is based on where you live. 
Um, the idea of equal opportunity 

NOTE Confidence: 0.883330404758453

4e9af6ea-2edb-4055-b1ab-b1a7850768cf
00:51:51.500 --> 00:51:57.670
for me is that I can't go to a bank 
and get a loan to get decent equipment.

NOTE Confidence: 0.883330404758453

4d9b6142-a42b-456d-9924-f8c9e9c0dea4
00:51:57.670 --> 00:51:59.950
Our fishermen can't go to a bank 
and get a loan 

NOTE Confidence: 0.883330404758453

b128d46f-37ff-4e34-a87a-6c9d0a4f80f5
00:51:59.950 --> 00:52:02.490
to get decent equipment 
to get out there and fish. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.883330404758453

3d8d932d-2354-4ace-be16-654b42be0c39
00:52:02.490 --> 00:52:04.510
Therefore they can't compete.
And-

NOTE Confidence: 0.848720371723175

646ea272-2ee3-4085-8c75-c7b1e19fffb7
00:52:06.100 --> 00:52:09.846
(Richard R. Whitney)
Well, one of the other points
that I'd like to make too is that

NOTE Confidence: 0.848720371723175

63d75dc5-476b-456c-a0cd-e9fa278b67b8
00:52:09.846 --> 00:52:13.986
the traditional Indian fishing 
grounds were in the streams. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.848720371723175

f8a76c9d-01a3-49eb-8e04-64bca206bbc6
00:52:13.986 --> 00:52:19.304
The heavy fishing took place there,
and was shown in the film clip there

NOTE Confidence: 0.848720371723175

6da8915b-e95c-40cb-b669-286715ec01eb
00:52:19.304 --> 00:52:22.900
that frequently happens that 
there are not any fish left

NOTE Confidence: 0.848720371723175

f09184ea-d7c3-42f1-8627-2223c6ddf98e
00:52:22.900 --> 00:52:24.350
for harvesting by the time 
they get back to the streams. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.848720371723175

5abc0e1e-50b6-484d-b986-df3fc97f9c26
00:52:24.350 --> 00:52:30.169
Now they're all needed for spawning,
so that, the Indian was cut off.

NOTE Confidence: 0.848720371723175

68f0ccc4-4730-4a97-bd09-0de6aac6e5b1
00:52:30.169 --> 00:52:32.203
(Donald W. Moos)
One of the things that uh, 
I think that uh, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.869565010070801

959346db-69bc-4e5b-a7ec-acdcad54a727
00:52:32.203 --> 00:52:35.300
we should point out
that we just do not have 

NOTE Confidence: 0.869565010070801

02c994f0-bc7d-4745-96bc-067e0a90eb48
00:52:35.300 --> 00:52:39.535
one big bunch of salmon
that head into Puget Sound 

NOTE Confidence: 0.869565010070801

84f1b794-82eb-44fe-ad7d-895c1ea7d872
00:52:39.535 --> 00:52:43.436
and all you have to do
is divide it fifty-fifty. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.869565010070801

c69dc299-8122-4f8f-9be6-6926f5f84b9a
00:52:43.436 --> 00:52:46.506
First of all, 
you have heading into Puget Sound

00:52:46.506 --> 00:52:49.800
many, many different runs
coming in at different times,

NOTE Confidence: 0.869565010070801

f4d50d7a-b286-451b-8f21-78660c247829
00:52:49.800 --> 00:52:52.850
different species heading 
to different streams, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.869565010070801

05694f22-5617-44d8-b655-2d4ee014eac1
00:52:52.850 --> 00:52:57.550
and the management of each one of these
has to be very carefully calculated

NOTE Confidence: 0.869565010070801

f2eb4bce-815f-43ce-aff5-bdf12e63c9bd
00:52:57.550 --> 00:53:00.516
in order to preserve it 
and perpetuate it. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.869565010070801

d8060042-87e5-4c23-8097-05f8c4ba0847
00:53:00.516 --> 00:53:03.620
Then you superimpose upon that,

NOTE Confidence: 0.853488206863403

f7f65b66-be53-443a-9a6c-d9d118ab2ee6
00:53:03.620 --> 00:53:07.976
not only the non Indian fishery
made up of many segments, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.853488206863403

c64d6103-2c2f-453c-848b-e4855b388bf2
00:53:07.976 --> 00:53:11.500
but you have 27 tribes who are   

NOTE Confidence: 0.853488206863403

781d6843-ff93-4bba-85b8-c9a2e6d13394
00:53:11.500 --> 00:53:15.910
very much interested in 
their own management, to be sure that 

NOTE Confidence: 0.853488206863403

de13f8b6-6e2f-431d-a5f7-f5648764bf8f
00:53:15.910 --> 00:53:20.000
they and their tribal members are 
getting the proper number of fish. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.853488206863403

84e4875f-f8fe-4007-9077-afed00243380
00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:25.000
So now you have a more complicated, 
more complicated situation 

NOTE Confidence: 0.853488206863403

f9dac98d-f78a-49c6-9339-b1f080a51cb0
00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:30.000
than just salmon, spelt salmon, 
heading into Puget Sound

00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:32.000
and dividing it fifty-fifty. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.868019938468933

2e6c5e9e-3acd-4b97-972e-f962c5e1ff9a
00:53:32.000 --> 00:53:36.500
And naturally we are working with a,

NOTE Confidence: 0.868019938468933

6433139e-2ee6-4597-b780-d590186af719
00:53:36.500 --> 00:53:42.954
with a situation that lends itself
to disbelief and controversy. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.868019938468933

4b9ab8b6-db1c-49d7-8cf4-ad2bcd4aff63
00:53:42.954 --> 00:53:46.680
Then you take all of that
and superimpose on that,

NOTE Confidence: 0.868019938468933

d13fdcdc-c7c5-4e8f-a0ff-cbeff48db15c
00:53:46.680 --> 00:53:51.906
the fact that many of your fish
are worth $20 and $30 apiece. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.868019938468933

9851dddb-1b32-4e8a-8d3f-a18f8abb5861
00:53:51.906 --> 00:53:54.500
And then on top of that, 
the fish that are heading up 

00:53:54.500 --> 00:53:56.900
that finally got through 
the foreign fisheries,

NOTE Confidence: 0.868019938468933

deb66e99-bd43-4608-80a9-43c621f643c6
00:53:56.900 --> 00:53:58.726
they got through the 
non Indian fisheries, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.868019938468933

7049c24e-0d0d-413e-b93b-fdb355310075
00:53:58.726 --> 00:54:02.110
they got through the sports fisheries,
they got through the Indian fisheries,

NOTE Confidence: 0.868019938468933

d1d49825-6052-4bf1-93eb-4d6366ecbe01
00:54:02.110 --> 00:54:04.000
and you find people out here, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.860724151134491

032d93d1-e606-417b-bf31-b62acd0d551b
00:54:04.000 --> 00:54:07.952
snagging the fish just to 
get the eggs out of them,

NOTE Confidence: 0.860724151134491

3498e772-6571-4a67-bf48-966efcb999bc
00:54:07.952 --> 00:54:10.804
because the eggs are worth more
than the carcass. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.860724151134491

fa98e03e-a98f-47fe-9787-bd0387c54970
00:54:10.804 --> 00:54:13.824
And people wonder why 
the fish are declining. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.860724151134491

97c9b685-aee3-4443-922e-df886c263de0
00:54:13.824 --> 00:54:18.500
Somebody said it very well 
in the Congress a few years ago, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.860724151134491

2dd34381-f1fe-4e07-852b-042d316a446b
00:54:18.500 --> 00:54:22.356
and they said, do not ever 
underestimate the power of greed.

NOTE Confidence: 0.860724151134491

aa2cc15e-bf33-461d-a0b2-865511c72957
00:54:22.356 --> 00:54:24.908
And this is one of the things 
that rests on us. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.860724151134491

2435ed14-2d38-440a-a5a4-148582c01e12
00:54:24.908 --> 00:54:28.950
And that of course with the 
controversy of the court situation. 

00:54:28.950 --> 00:54:31.500
(Al Swift)
Let's, we have such a short time left, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.860724151134491

7c88a176-2d09-4460-9b0b-38ed2a4ebe66
00:54:31.500 --> 00:54:35.676
and I think we need to do 
a little crystal balling as well.

NOTE Confidence: 0.888319730758667

992947b3-6f86-4627-8ba9-520314c30480
00:54:35.710 --> 00:54:39.843
It's obviously a difficult situation. 
We've had a calm discussion 

NOTE Confidence: 0.888319730758667

76f82732-dbff-4cb2-8945-fc9d22759b21
00:54:39.843 --> 00:54:44.942
of serious disagreements 
and approach to this problem. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.879200875759125

5aa5259c-812e-46fa-b85c-19639dc7d9ac
00:54:44.942 --> 00:54:48.500
And I'd like to ask each of you 
to look into your crystal ball

NOTE Confidence: 0.879200875759125

def5af11-d0dc-44d3-9e24-41373d5ee173
00:54:48.500 --> 00:54:50.962
and uh, take a look at the 
immediate future, next few months,

NOTE Confidence: 0.879200875759125

161a242d-d492-47b3-9e94-6d124e038715
00:54:50.962 --> 00:54:53.880
and maybe uh, take a quick look at  

NOTE Confidence: 0.879200875759125

3a07f520-f7be-4edf-8b5a-fe99dcbdb6b0
00:54:53.880 --> 00:54:55.800
what it's going to be like
five years from now. 

00:54:55.800 --> 00:54:58.010
You've got about 30 seconds apiece 
for that, Doctor?

NOTE Confidence: 0.879867374897003

b1ecdc1c-4991-4ca2-ac84-8908b5576fbc
00:54:58.930 --> 00:55:03.260
(Richard R. Whitney)
Well, I think this year is going to 
be better than last year, at least. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.879867374897003

fc2d546a-6b98-40f9-9dc1-5f2f19f1f1f1
00:55:03.960 --> 00:55:05.050
(Al Swift)
Any reason?

00:55:05.050 --> 00:55:06.950
(Richard R. Whitney)
In terms of more fish coming in,

NOTE Confidence: 0.879867374897003

6467bbad-18ca-42a9-8b72-d709a97cafbb
00:55:06.950 --> 00:55:08.920
and this should help
ease some of the conflict. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.879867374897003

94f35889-5c82-47af-b1f0-0a5bf6242a6f
00:55:08.920 --> 00:55:13.000
Of course we'll see again some of
the conflicts with the state courts

NOTE Confidence: 0.879867374897003

b30b875b-9898-4c3e-b9b6-75df0aad280f
00:55:13.000 --> 00:55:14.940
as Mr. Lowman has pointed out.  

NOTE Confidence: 0.879867374897003

6dcffa72-6dd0-4d71-bca0-4ec02bdb8201
00:55:14.940 --> 00:55:18.940
There will be some 
illegal fishing activity uh, 

00:55:18.940 --> 00:55:21.260
and some state court dismissals. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.879867374897003

d36f8de3-1601-4764-91a8-526831c3a2b0
00:55:21.260 --> 00:55:24.500
We might see some more federal 
activity in terms of enforcement. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.86318963766098

c163944d-0b2e-4a26-9581-da89ac57170b
00:55:24.500 --> 00:55:28.500
I, uh hope that can be avoided. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.86318963766098

e699c04e-0574-4145-b220-8832df3be81f
00:55:28.500 --> 00:55:30.500
I think the state should assume
the responsibility 

00:55:30.500 --> 00:55:32.200
for management of the resource.

00:55:32.500 --> 00:55:33.573
(Al Swift)
Mr. Moos?

NOTE Confidence: 0.86318963766098

0c8c835a-1eb1-4d15-a731-89b3909adaad
00:55:33.573 --> 00:55:37.880
(Donald W. Moos)
Well, I, looking in the crystal ball, 
I would hope that

NOTE Confidence: 0.86318963766098

f8322f63-3cfb-4de2-b075-cc6e683049de
00:55:37.880 --> 00:55:42.880
I would see the time when the
Congress, or the court, or someone,

NOTE Confidence: 0.86318963766098

7fa3937e-d730-4373-84e9-71b21f01a1ca
00:55:42.880 --> 00:55:47.400
passes the ultimate management
of the resource back to one agency.

NOTE Confidence: 0.86318963766098

91b156ba-35ec-4f70-99e5-3f23b23b45cf
00:55:47.400 --> 00:55:51.000
And the agency at this specific time 
is the Fisheries Department,

NOTE Confidence: 0.86318963766098

73d38935-223e-462d-ae6b-07801caeceff
00:55:51.000 --> 00:55:54.400
to make the final decision 
on the runs. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.86318963766098

2c370e6a-215e-4df1-919d-66ec43934fa6
00:55:54.400 --> 00:55:56.193
And then obligate 
the Fisheries Department

NOTE Confidence: 0.821317851543427

35611052-7cfd-49e8-9718-e2d6ed3e03be
00:55:56.193 --> 00:56:01.500
in a cooperative program to consult 
and work very closely with the tribes

NOTE Confidence: 0.821317851543427

273d41d6-0134-4e8e-b84f-79ded426af0b
00:56:01.500 --> 00:56:03.980
so that you can have 
a cooperative effort,

NOTE Confidence: 0.821317851543427

61b4bef2-5a05-4b5b-8f92-45ae6871488f
00:56:03.980 --> 00:56:06.607
but one agency to ultimately 
make the decision.

00:56:06.607 --> 00:56:07.450
(Al Swift)
Guy?

NOTE Confidence: 0.821317851543427

fe6b39d6-b74d-4051-b71e-56f6b649df1b
00:56:07.450 --> 00:56:10.580
(Guy McMinds)
Well, what you see here is 
a lot of calm verbiage, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.821317851543427

9d85c2d7-2ea2-4005-b838-024fe7aa1417
00:56:10.580 --> 00:56:15.976
but the situation out in the 
fishing country is not calm. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.840503692626953

39a11aad-03a2-450c-8c78-c694f8b537cc
00:56:15.976 --> 00:56:20.903
The gillnetters, 
my fellow across the table, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.840503692626953

3bb217c8-626d-47b9-a1ed-766dc6abcd2f
00:56:20.903 --> 00:56:25.650
has just demonstrated that 
his strategy is not to get us any fish. 

00:56:25.650 --> 00:56:25.980
(Al Swift)
[unintelligible]

NOTE Confidence: 0.840503692626953

323834da-e630-453b-b154-c2a991429656
00:56:25.980 --> 00:56:32.259
(Guy McMinds)
Well the Indian people know this, 
and they're not gonna be

NOTE Confidence: 0.840503692626953

02e6ba15-1f53-4d3e-9aac-c8daffee0dc7
00:56:32.259 --> 00:56:36.100
in a position of being 
a shirttail cousin anymore. 

00:56:36.100 --> 00:56:36.950
(Al Swift)
Bill?

NOTE Confidence: 0.840503692626953

fc751ef6-596b-4661-be8f-50bc6dbbc5a6
00:56:36.950 --> 00:56:39.600
(Bill Lowman)
Well I don't believe I indicated 
we weren't for more fish,

NOTE Confidence: 0.840503692626953

3ca93645-4ad8-4ad3-9555-a14e61332d2e
00:56:39.600 --> 00:56:43.605
everybody's for more fish, 
uh, that isn't it. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.840503692626953

b0e52a0e-5aa7-45bd-baf1-61ccf793268d
00:56:43.605 --> 00:56:49.938
What the uh, Boldt court is telling us, 
we're going to go for enhancement.

NOTE Confidence: 0.83546370267868

f4778653-0bca-4be2-8a9f-ae0c10e80184
00:56:49.938 --> 00:56:50.995
We're going to give you more fish. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.83546370267868

c55ac665-e89e-4d52-92a2-344208aa9a45
00:56:50.995 --> 00:56:53.880
This is tantamount to 
telling a Black down South 

NOTE Confidence: 0.83546370267868

f5e32ed7-f5fe-4fc2-897c-6f6be27886b2
00:56:53.880 --> 00:56:55.500
we're going to give you 
a raise in salary,

NOTE Confidence: 0.83546370267868

0e41813f-ca93-4095-aba7-3cfa3de7fd23
00:56:55.500 --> 00:56:57.900
but move to the back of the bus, 
you stay there. 

00:56:57.900 --> 00:56:58.900
(Al Swift)
What's gonna happen?

00:56:58.900 --> 00:57:00.050
(Bill Lowman)
We are going to push for

NOTE Confidence: 0.83546370267868

b1e35dc2-4a24-4548-b341-45213e643eb5
00:57:00.050 --> 00:57:03.915
modification of the Boldt decision 
legally and politically.

NOTE Confidence: 0.827271342277527

76d76f65-1ccb-41d3-ae7c-1c00f046d445
00:57:03.915 --> 00:57:09.852
Uh, endorsing those people 
for public office who will try,

NOTE Confidence: 0.827271342277527

386b346f-aaf3-4376-964c-3afb18562e24
00:57:09.852 --> 00:57:13.929
at least try, to modify this thing. 
And especially as Mr. Moos said, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.827271342277527

e8d64c12-c969-475c-8739-c812432ff35a
00:57:13.929 --> 00:57:16.977
put the authority with
one agency of state

NOTE Confidence: 0.827271342277527

49a049df-be34-4158-8fcd-250390fd6d64
00:57:16.977 --> 00:57:20.500
to manage their own resource. 
Our State Department of Fisheries 

NOTE Confidence: 0.827271342277527

a20ba629-0c45-41a6-8967-d2a221278820
00:57:20.500 --> 00:57:22.880
is tooled up for that, 
they're capable of it, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.827271342277527

78160f43-6759-4b83-ba81-54c3e9ff6953
00:57:22.880 --> 00:57:23.960
and the enforcement 
and the management

NOTE Confidence: 0.827271342277527

40bfc9e9-8423-482f-b2ac-12d1e03e2ecf
00:57:23.960 --> 00:57:27.850
should be with the state ultimately, 
with input from other factions. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.827271342277527

2625bc05-6f79-45b8-8b88-7a7a2c6c5f66
00:57:27.850 --> 00:57:30.869
(Al Swift)
Gentlemen, thank you all very much.
What we've offered this hour 

NOTE Confidence: 0.827271342277527

4f8d10de-3bb5-4a2d-99f0-7f55dcade9e3
00:57:30.869 --> 00:57:33.980
is more of a status report 
than a wrap up on the Boldt decision.

NOTE Confidence: 0.853947281837463

f1c9e36d-8dfe-4f0b-ae44-9a28c4359d99
00:57:33.980 --> 00:57:36.417
We will live with that decision 
for a long time,

NOTE Confidence: 0.853947281837463

a5839246-f2db-45b7-8f26-9aacbc15a80d
00:57:36.417 --> 00:57:38.550
and with the deep emotions
it has stirred, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.853947281837463

606083e5-30d4-4e82-bc2b-bad5676c9ef7
00:57:38.550 --> 00:57:40.062
but under our system of law.

NOTE Confidence: 0.87177985906601

2f0d4ddc-c6eb-4cd1-97ce-693e5c1d2fa6
00:57:40.750 --> 00:57:43.982
It is interpreted by the courts,
and unless that interpretation

NOTE Confidence: 0.87177985906601

7e6143a3-5281-4769-ac67-e115565322bf
00:57:43.982 --> 00:57:47.926
is changed by law, we live with it. 
But without patience and cooperation,

NOTE Confidence: 0.87177985906601

5e91460f-60c4-4195-800e-3c58120a29be
00:57:47.926 --> 00:57:51.046
two qualities that are 
in very short supply, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.87177985906601

a87f31d0-e0d3-4aed-9aa4-8fe35c4efaa4
00:57:51.046 --> 00:57:54.478
that task of implementing it 
will be very difficult indeed. 

NOTE Confidence: 0.87177985906601

fc46ec72-4c06-41b1-b5e8-a602b3a9a7cf
00:57:54.478 --> 00:57:55.726
Thank you very much for watching.

00:57:57.900 --> 00:58:28.500
[upbeat instrumental music]

NOTE Confidence: 0.90149337053299

32a50d80-4aeb-472e-85db-4d73cd8e5c7a
00:58:28.500 --> 00:58:30.918
(voiceover #2)
This program was produced 
in cooperation with the

NOTE Confidence: 0.90149337053299

6c9be5d9-4047-45d5-b97f-3f8574bcc274
00:58:30.918 --> 00:58:34.976
Institute of Governmental Research of 
the Graduate School of Public Affairs 

NOTE Confidence: 0.90149337053299

228d0745-2fb2-4650-930a-080b50ce2a4d
00:58:34.976 --> 00:58:36.996
at the University of Washington, 

NOTE Confidence: 0.90149337053299

57ac488e-11d2-4711-badc-e76b1c57cbbc
00:58:36.996 --> 00:58:39.500
and was supported in part 
by a grant from the

NOTE Confidence: 0.90149337053299

47ba304b-5c31-44dd-91aa-3fafa237cf7b
00:58:39.500 --> 00:58:41.960
National Oceanic and Atmospheric 
Administration 

00:58:41.960 --> 00:58:44.600
to the Washington Sea Grant program.

00:58:46.000 --> 00:58:49.980
[KCTS Seattle intro/outro sound]

NOTE Confidence: 0.544312477111816

bf3018c2-c8ac-4444-9d3a-a259135bcd38
00:58:49.980 --> 00:58:52.550
(voiceover #1)
KCTS Seattle.